If you have a daughter from an adulterous affair, it’s OK to have sex with her, but only if you marry her first. HUH?
Islam gives new meaning to the term ‘child bride.’ Girls as young as seven are sold into marriage with men well over 40.
Related Videos: children
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IN ALL OTHER RELIGIONS THE YOUNG GIRLS ARE TREATED LIKE GOD OR NOT LESS THEN GOD.
All infidels should unite against Islam.
In India and Nepal young girls are are treated like GOD or not less in fact in Nepal
a young girl is chosen every year by the high priest as kuwari queen
In Bengal i.e in India during the annual Puja there is a rtitual to worship a young girl in every locality where Puja is held. They are treated in high esteem
Dears,
I am from Israel and what i see here is hate and terro you are not in postion to condamn billion of people using lies or personal perception, am afraid to say that your hate and unfoundated accusation do not harm Muslims only BUT ,doing more bad to ENTIRE world because hate bring terro and inresponsibilities.
There are extremets people in any commonities , there are fanatics in every relgion and i will tell you something , in my country they are people who are more agressive THAN what you talked about but the state system still controled them and when they will get the chance we will export terrorism .
Islam is not the responsible for agrression, people are responsible ,there is no relgion calling for terro, i read the islamic BOOK and you must know the history when you read that and if you read it and your heart full of hate then you ‘ll never ubndersatnd also read a bible or our book and your heart full of hate and you ‘ll find hate and hate so make our world better by chosing things which show that we people of the world responsiblle to help and to educate people who do wrong and missundersatnd their fate not by accustaion a relgion which have nothing to do with people action , why you do not rethink about history of relgion and see what Christian did to others and to their own people.
Enough , enough , enough , we need peace we are sofocated of war and we are living the event daily in Israel because we did wrong this land is not ours land so we deserve what happend and what will happend because we sent people out from their home and now we have the power to do what we like and want others to hear to us and to follow our instruction , its not fair and generlized and to accuse a community to accuse billion of poeple , this your business but not my business and be sure there is no different between you when you right such things or to kill others because you feed terroris idea by your article , think about ???? poison this your weapon.
DAvid, either you are a self-hating liberal Jew or a whacked out Torah True Jew. Either way, you are the reason Israel hasn’t thrown all the Arabs off their land as they should have in 1948. Israel will not be safe until every Arab is out of there. You have 57 Muslim countries you can live in, so pick one and get the hell out of the Jewish state.
Dear David
U. Are very brave and honest to urself and people, Am from lebanon and we suppose to be enemies but we are not, not matter where u live and what is ur beleives…we still all a one human kind..and please don’t let Barenakedislam teas u at any point that is the only Narrow Minded People think that way… And also we should understand that he might personaly got hurt from Muslims so that’s his way to express his feelings as I do sometimes…Am unti Islam man I what others call hate yes I do hate the way they perform their Releigion and it really feels sick to hear them talking about rules of having sex they have no respect for the Women and they believe women born for babies and the Mae Joy and they hate any other releigions…Am Druz or Durzy and we have a lot of Druz living in Israel..at last my own openion; I loved what u wrote and I support ur way of thinking we are all human but also Islam people or muslim countreis rules it is upnormal for a normal human being..they built the hate in others and make us do express this way but we still don’t dare to kill or rape or Marry our step doughter and. Marry a 9years old girl or rape boys which is main pleasure for most of Muslims and many undiscrible things. But we need peace and please think as we all human and we have No rite to kill and judg eachothers…li forget to mention,, I HAvE NO Religion…I FOLOW MY HAERt
Not as bad as you cultists!!
CIA-Mossad Mercenaries Stage ‘Al-Qaeda’ Beheadings
John Kaminski
Facts-not-Fairies
It’s truly saddening — and frightening — to see so many people from the 9/11 truth movement and the nominally intelligent sectors of American society duped by the new government fairy tales that Americans Nick Berg and Paul Johnson and Korean Kim Sun-il were beheaded by al-Qaeda terrorists when in fact the perpetrators were international mercenaries who draw their paychecks from the subterranean murder bureau run by the United States Central Intelligence Agency, Israel’s Mossad and the hired henchmen of morally bankrupt and Bush-connected Saudi Arabian royalty.
Now that Ashcroft’s fake terror alerts within the U.S. fail to draw even a ripple of attention — except for honest intelligence analysts who quickly debunk them as calculated fantasy — the forces of evil run by Dick Cheney and his Soviet-style hit men within the Bush administration have resorted to actual grisly performances of preposterous violence overseas in clumsy attempts to deflect attention from embarrassing news on the homefront and build a case for their incipient invasion of oil fields in eastern Saudi Arabia as their brutal rape of Iraq continues unabated.
But as usual Americans are kept in the dark by their mindlocked mainstream media, surely more warped than the state-controlled Soviet press ever was, and are spoonfed magical tales of evil al-Qaeda deeds from newsrooms that have CIA censors coordinating their vomitous expectorations.
With its questionable video sequences and lack of amputation blood spurts, Berg’s mutilation has already been largely debunked as a depraved videodrama filmed inside Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison, the crowning achievement of a brief but continuing era of perversion in that notorious prison that already has many in Washington whispering about charges of treason against President Bush for approving torture policies that violate all manner of international law, including recently passed U.S. statutes.
Johnson’s dramatic demise was less visible and more circumspect, but the prompt annihilation of his supposed killers — all claimed to be important cogs in Arabia’s squadron of al-Qaeda terrorists — simply disintegrates credulity, especially because the corpse of their victim was not immediately produced.
It was a handy way of stifling further inquiries into the matter, and a handy way for Western petroleum interests to rid themselves of those it perceives to be its enemies. The only way this information and action could have unfolded the way it did was if the neocons had a mole on the inside of the operation, which of course they did, since they were running the operation.
The beheading of the Korean contract worker was, like the other two, a public relations gambit primarily designed to cover up more bad news for Bush.
Consider the sequence: Berg’s killing took public focus off the pornographic prison scandal, Johnson’s death stole the headlines from revelations about Bush’s torture memorandum and his possibly treasonous culpability in the outing of a CIA agent, and Kim’s demise diverted attention from the Kean commission’s stunning findings that the government let 9/11 happen on purpose.
The purpose of the complicity of some Saudi royals’ with the Mossad and CIA is to forestall a revolution which is about to overcome them, and cut off all oil supplies to the West. Yet not all Saudi royals are in on the plot, as Crown Prince Abdullah and Saudi foreign minister Saudi al Faisal have often insisted that Zionist provocateurs are behind the terror on Saudi soil.
In addition to being another clumsy attempt to defame Islamics, the grotesque beheadings are meant to take the appalling onus off the avalanche of stories detailing American depravity in its handling of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as whip up additional fervor for new wars against the Saudis and Iranians. And all the while, the leaders of the U.S. are behind the horrific murders, just as they were behind the attacks of 9/11, Oklahoma City, the bombing of the African embassies, and all the other lethal deceptions of recent decades.
Kawther Salam, an expatriate Palestine journalist writing from Vienna, brings up some prescient questions regarding the convenient timing of all these beheadings.
“A strange coincidence around the murder of Paul Johnson is that the Saudi Police apparently cooperated with those who abducted him. Why would a security service trained by American and British C.I.A. fronts like the Vinnell Corp. cooperate with Al-Qaeda, their purported enemy ?
This is the second time during the last weeks that Saudi security forces have cooperated with Al-Qaeda. If this starts happening regularly, it would suggest either a very grave instability in the Kingdom or that the Saudi security forces are run in accordance with American interests.”
I believe the situation is that in either case, you have your answer —and another reason to believe al-Qaeda is clearly an operational arm of the CIA, a conveniently blamable patsy to be identified every time a bomb is used to make a political point.
The point is that in all these beheadings and bombings, the chief beneficiaries are always the forces of evil, namely Israel and certain multinational corporations. But the blame is always trumpeted from America’s Jewish-dominated media to be placed squarely on the shoulders of mysterious Islamic bandits.
In his most recent post from Vienna, Salam also mentioned one of my favorite stories about al-Qaeda:
“During the second Palestinian Intifada, the Israeli intelligence tried to create an “Al-Qaeda” organization in the West Bank and and Gaza using the American know-how and experience gained creating Al-Qaeda and Mr. Osama bin Ladin. The Israeli Intelligence services were using the damaged Palestinians economy to lure in unaware Palestinian youths. They provided several Palestinians with machine guns and thousands of dollars to kill Israelis under the name of Al-Qaeda. When the game was discovered by the Palestinians’ intelligence, the Israelis scurried away and stopped their disgusting “Al-Qaeda” game with Palestinians. Only last week the media carried news of an Israeli (not Palestinian) arrested in the Phillipines for being a member of “Al-Qaeda.”
This phenomenon of Israelis hiring hapless (and penniless) Arab malcontents to pose as “Islamic terrorists” is of course a well-known and established practice most visible in the Occupied Territories where set-up dupes are called Palestinian suicide bombers, first drugged and then blown up at a cost of many Israeli lives all to be used as an excuse for obliterating Palestinian children throwing stones from Apache attack helicopters paid for by, of course, American citizens.
The other great example of this false-flag recruitment process is, of course, the several names who were recruited to pose as 9/11 hijackers, although that plan didn’t quite go according to plan as many of the supposed devout Muslims wound up in strip clubs snorting coke shortly before they supposedly were to give their lives to Allah in the Jihad against Manhattan.
I had the good fortune the other day to be on the Jack Blood show on WARL in Providence, one of the three best AM radio talk shows in the country (the other two being of course The Jeff Rense Program, aired on 140 or so stations around the country, and Vyzygoth’s From the Grassy Knoll in little old Dade City, Florida). You can find transcripts of appearances by me on all three of these programs’ archives on the Internet, as well as many more interesting interviews.
One of the callers — I want to say his name was Sheldon, but I’m probably wrong — asked me if I had ever heard of the Noahide Laws (which I had) and explained that these had been officially adopted by Congress (Public Law 102-14 H.J. Res. 104) in the early ’90s as the new guiding principles of American society. You probably missed this little news note, but there are plenty of outraged people who can tell you about it.
Anyway, Sheldon went on to point out that the recommended penalty for violating any of these Noahide Laws is usually beheading. If you want to get really paranoid/perceptive about it, you should read what they say at Armageddon Online and check out this unsavory link.
Those folks think that as America becomes a Lubavitcher government, beheadings are going to become more and more popular for all you infidels and peaceniks out there. Also eligible for this punishment, I’m told, are those who worship Jesus Christ as their Messiah (just to stir things up a tad more).
So I was struck by the contrast of this attitude about religious rectitude (if that’s what you want to call it) and Salam the exiled Palestinian’s perspective on the matter in his post from Vienna
“On behalf of my people I would like to say that we deny that the terror practices of Al-Qaeda represent Islam and Moslems in any way. We are against the instrumentalization of Islam and all Moslems by the CIA through their front organization Al-Qaeda. This disgusting criminal gang has already caused too much death and suffering for innocents of all creeds in many lands. We reject the Al-Qaeda announcement to killing innocent people under the name of Islam for revenge of the injustices comitted against Palestinians. We reject all Al-Qaeda practices as these crimes are against humanity. These crimes are all steered from Washington by the CIA and they only represent U.S. policy.”
Permit me the privilege of saying I agree with this gentleman 100 percent.
Although they are used in Saudi Arabia as a penalty for certain crimes after strict procedures involving judges and holy men, beheadings are specifically a Talmudic punishment, a Zionist Jewish remedy for any behavior that does not please the Jews. And any resistance to the Jewish Zionist agenda does not please the Jews.
I’m saying these beheadings send a signal to Jews all over the world that the Mossad is involved in these executions. A smug, sadistic signal of their superiority. They surely have help from the CIA and some segment of the Saudi power structure.
But this is the same kind of signal that warned so many Jews not to go to work on September 11, 2001 in downtown New York City. What this signal specifically means we cannot be sure, but we can be sure it does not mean anything good for the non-Jews of the world.
To take one more excerpt from Salam’s recent post:
“The Al-Qaeda terror organization has caused immense damage to Islam, to Moslems worldwide and to the interests of the peoples of all Arab and Muslim countries. The actions of Al-Qaeda have only served to promote the interests of the U.S. and Israel, which are clearly interested in “reshaping” the Middle East in such a way that they can more easily rape and plunder the region at will.
“In fact the CIA is using the terrorist actions of its proxy Al-Qaeda in order to give the U.S. an excuse to extend their power into and invade the Arab countries, first countries with rich plunder (oil) like Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and second any country which is a “threat” to Israel, or more exactly which Israel dislikes for whatever reason. The third objective for which the CIA is using its proxy Al-Qaeda is to engender fear and hate of Islam and Muslims worldwide. This corresponds to an old and tried ploy of colonizers: to slander and denigrate the target population so that it is acceptable and even called for to commit genocide against them. The peoples of Ireland, Africa and the Americas have all suffered this tragedy, and these regions have been colonized. The next obvious victims are Arabs and Muslims by extension because they live in geographic areas rich in oil be respected as full humans by the criminals in London, Washington and Tel Aviv.”
Amen, my brother. That’s exactly how I see it.
Americans who support the criminal Bush adminstration (and what soon may be criminal Kerry administration, because nothing would change were he to be elected) share the guilt in the horrendous crimes being committed for the benefit of Israelis and Jews and being blamed on Muslims.
How much clearer can it be than no American politician dares to expose the continuing carnage in Iraq and Afghanistan as unjustifiable mass murder? Or that Americans are too cowardly and immoral to stand up for justice, freedom, and peace?
The lies for these unconscionable actions are well-known, irrefutable, seered in the minds of the terrified citizens of the world.
Yet the American/Israeli war machine rolls on, with hardly a murmur of protest.
Americans, totally intimidated and deceived by their Jewish overlords, are the new evil empire, deaf to law, reason, and morality.
But one day soon, Americans will get the message.
As they destroy their own society as well as the rest of the world with their pornographic insensitivity, they will realize those axes are also being sharpened for them.
¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤
John Kaminski is the author of “America’s Autopsy Report,” a collection of his Internet essays seen on hundreds of websites around the world, and of “The Day America Died: Why You Shouldn’t Believe the Official Story of What Happened on September 11, 2001,” a booklet written especially for those who still believe the government’s version of events on that tragic day. A new collection of his essays, titled “The Perfect Enemy,” will soon be published. For more information, check out http://www.johnkaminski.com/
Please less of your BULLSHIT!!!
Islamic law regarding marriage
Islam recognizes value of sex and advocates marriage. Islam does not believe in celibacy. The Prophet of Islam has said, “Marriage is my Sunnah (that is recommended action of the Prophet) and whoever does not follow my Sunnah is not my true follower.” (Ibn Haiah, Babun Nikah)
Allah has commanded the Muslims to marry:
“And marry those among you who are single….” (24:33)
In Islam, marriage is essentially a contract. However, the distinction between sacred and secular was never explicit in Islam. Any action or transaction in Islam has religious implications. It is not quite accurate, therefore, to designate marriage in Islam simply as a secular contract. The appropriate designation of marriage could be a “Divine Institution”.
For a valid marriage, the following conditions must be satisfied:
There must be a clear proposal.
There must be a clear acceptance.
There must be at least two competent witnesses. This is necessary to exclude illicit sex and to safeguard legitimacy of progeny. It is recommended that marriage should be widely publicized.
There must be a marriage gift, little or more, by the bridegroom to the bride.
Dowry or marriage gift by bridegroom to the bride is a symbolic expression of the groom’s cognizance of the economic responsibilities of marriage and of his readiness to assume all such responsibilities subsequent to marriage. Dowry is not any price paid either to wife or family of the wife. The general principle is that dowry should be estimated according to the circumstances with emphasis on moderation. The Prophet (Sm) is reported to have said that the most blessed marriage is that which is least costly and most easy.
It is permissible for a Muslim man to see the women to whom he intends to propose marriage before taking further steps so that he can enter into the marriage with full knowledge. This has been permitted in Islam to avoid further misunderstanding. The Prophet (Sm) has said, “When one of you asks for woman in marriage, if he is able to look at what induce him to marry her, he should do so.” (Narrated in the book of tradition of Abu Daud)
However, it is not permitted in Islam for a man to be alone with a woman in the name of selection of spouse.
It is the girl’s right to make decision concerning her marriage and her father or guardian has no right to over-ride her objections or ignore her wishes. The Prophet (peace be upon him) has said, “A woman who has been previously married has more right concerning her person than her guardian and a virgin’s consent must be asked about herself, her consent being her silence.” (Narrated in the books of tradition of Bukhari and Muslim)
It is permanently prohibited for a Muslim to marry a woman of the following categories:
Father’s wife, whether divorced or widowed,
The mother including grand mothers,
The daughter including grand daughter,
The sisters including half and step sisters,
The paternal aunt, whether real, half or step sister of the father,
The maternal aunt, whether real, half or step sister of mother,
The brother’s daughter and
The sister’s daughter.
These restrictions have been imposed by Allah in his wisdom to increase trust among close relations by prohibiting incestuous relations, increase love and affection among close relations, expand family ties beyond close circle etc.
In Islam marriage is also prohibited with foster mother who has suckled him during the period of weaning and with foster sisters, foster aunt and foster nieces.
Islam has also prohibited marriage with mother in law, the stepdaughter, and the daughter in law. Islam has also forbidden having two sisters as co-wives.
It is also prohibited to marry a woman who is a Mushrik that is who worships idols or associates other deities with Allah. Allah says in His book, the Quran,
“And do not marry Mushrik women until they believe.” (2:221)
It is however lawful for Muslim men to marry chaste women (that is women of virtue and character) from among the Jews and the Christians. Allah says in His Book,
“(And lawful to you in marriage) are chaste women form those who were given the scripture before you.” (5:5)
“It is not permissible for Muslim women to marry non-Muslim men.” (2:221 and 60:10)
Allah has been more kind to the women and has not put on her extra stress and probable difficulties in living with a husband of another faith.
Islam has allowed man to marry more than one woman but has put serious restrictions on this. It requires agreement of the new wife, his ability to maintain more than one wife, equality among the wives, etc. It is for this reason that very few Muslim men marry more than one woman. Islam has allowed this to man to curb illicit sex. Illicit sex is a very degenerating thing for humanity and leads to debasement of women through prostitution. Islam has totally rejected prostitution.
Islamic law regarding marriage is easy, practical, rational and in keeping with human nature. Humanity can only benefit by following these regulations in true spirit.
ty Rangeet for clearing it up,barenakedislam please do not speak about topics that u do not know about it and stop racism and hate to our relegion.we respect all relegions and you should do the same.Islam is not responsible for agrression.If a very low minority of muslims are thought to do terrorism(qauda etc),that do not mean that ALL MUSLIMS ARE LIKE THIS.
Finally you need to get good knowledge about topics you write about.see Rangeet brought evidence from quran and Sunnah(only sources for islam) and wht you have brought?just a fake video and bullshit(even if this video is not fake,it is an inividual case….)
Amino, many of my videos here come from your part of the world. I don’t have to make anything up,
it’s all right there in living color for everyone to see. The stories and videos tell the story of Islam,
I don’t have to say a word. But I have read your Qur’an and it is filled with violence against women
and non-believers. According to the Qur’an there ARE moderate Muslims. They are the ones who
do not do the fighting for jihad, they are the ones who support it, either spiritually and/or financially.
Take a look thru the videos in the Islamization of the West, The Enemy Within and Religion of Hate
categories. There are many that show Islamic clerics talking about how they are going to force Islam
on the entire world and those who refuse to submit will be killed.
Islam is not a religion of peace, it is a death cult and must be banned from civilized Western countries.
You will not prevail, we will stage another Crusades if we have to.
quote=barenakedislam
“I have read your Qur’an and it is filled with violence against women”
obviousely either you have read an edited wrong version of Qur’an ,or u have not understand it properly
Women Rights in Islam :
1-Women’s Right of Permission :
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! How can we know her permission?” He said, “Her silence (indicates her permission).” (Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67)
Narrated Khansa bint Khidam Al-Ansariya that her father gave her in marriage when she was a matron and she disliked that marriage. So she went to Allah’s Apostle and he declared that marriage invalid. (Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 69)
2-Spiritual Equality of Women and Men:
Allah has got ready forgiveness and tremendous rewards for the Muslim men and women; the believing men and women; the devout men and women; the truthful men and women; the patiently suffering men and women; the humble men and women; the almsgiving men and women; the fasting men and women, the men and women who guard their chastity; and the men and women who are exceedingly mindful of Allah. (Al-Ahzab 33:35)
3-Attitudes towards women
O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good. (An-Nisa 4:19)
4-Examples of Consensual Decision Making :
If both spouses decide, by mutual consent and consultation, on weaning [their baby], there is no blame on either. If you want to have your babies breastfed by a foster mother you are not doing anything blame-worthy provided you pay to the fostermother what you had agreed to offer, in accordance with the established manner. Fear Allah and know that Allah is aware it what you are doing”. (Al-Baqarah, 2:233)
5-The Right of Women not to be Forced :
Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas: Barira’s husband was a slave called Mughith, as if I am seeing him now, going behind Barira and weeping with his tears flowing down his beard. The Prophet said to ‘Abbas, “O ‘Abbas ! are you not astonished at the love of Mughith for Barira and the hatred of Barira for Mughith?” The Prophet then said to Barira, “Why don’t you return to him?” She said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Do you order me to do so?” He said, “No, I only intercede for him.” She said, “I am not in need of him.” (Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 63, Number 206)
6-The Education of Women:
Narrated Abu Said: A woman came to Allah’s Apostle and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Men (only) benefit by your teachings, so please devote to us from (some of) your time, a day on which we may come to you so that you may teach us of what Allah has taught you.” Allah’s Apostle said, “Gather on such-and-such a day at such-and-such a place.” They gathered and Allah’s Apostle came to them and taught them of what Allah had taught him. (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 413)
7-On the Treatment of Women :
Narrated Mu’awiyah al-Qushayri: I went to the Apostle of Allah (pbuh) and asked him: “What do you say (command) about our wives?” He replied: “Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.” (Sunan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2139) “The best of you is one who is best towards his family and I am best towards the family”. (At-Tirmithy). “None but a noble man treats women in an honourable manner. And none but an ignoble treats women disgracefully”. (At-Tirmithy).
8-The Prophet’s Disapproval of Women Beaters :
Patient behavior was the practice of the Prophet, even when his wife dared to address him harshly. Once his mother-in-law- saw her daughter strike him with her fist on his noble chest. When the enraged mother -in-law began to reproach her daughter, the Prophet smilingly said, “Leave her alone; they do worse than that.” And once Abu Bakr, his father-in-law, was invited to settle some misunderstanding between him and Aishah. The Prophet said to her, “Will you speak, or shall I speak?” Aisha said, “You speak, but do not say except the truth.” Abu Bakr was so outraged that he immediately struck her severely, forcing her to run and seek protection behind the back of the Prophet. Abu Bakr said, “O you the enemy of herself! Does the Messenger of Allah say but the truth?” The Prophet said, “O Abu Bakr, we did not invite you for this [harsh dealing with Aishah], nor did we anticipate it.” quoted in: Mutual Rights and Obligations
women rights in the western counteries:
1-English law until 1805 had allowed the man to sell his wife for the price of six pence
2-And the convening of a conference in the French 586 to consider the status of women: Do you have the spirit or not? If it is the spirit animal or human spirit? Finally, they decided they are human! But they created to serve men only.
3-And the English Parliament passed a resolution in the era of Henry VIII is prohibited for women to read the ‘new era’ because they are considered unclean.
4-In modern times, women are expelled from the house after the age of eighteen years to begin to work to achieve a living, and if you want to stay in the house of her parents, they pay rent and the price of her food and washing clothes!
HOW THIS COMPARES TO ISLAM ???!!!!!!!
You’re full of crap, Amino. Take a look at the Women & Children
categories here. I don’t give a damn what you think your Qur’an says,
what matters is the way women and children are being treated in Islam today.
Go quote your Qur’an to the Dhimmis who will buy into your Islamic BS.
It doesn’t work here with my audience.
quote=barenakedislam
“There are many that show Islamic clerics talking about how they are going to force Islam
on the entire world and those who refuse to submit will be killed.”
Islam guarantees freedom of religion for non-Muslims
قوله تعالى: (( لكم دينكم ولي دين )) الكافرون: 6
Kaferoun 6
Amino, if that’s so, why don’t they allow them to practice their religions in Muslim countries? Whey is there not one church or synagogue in most Muslims countries?
BEHEADINGS. TORTURE. MASSACRES. Persecution of Christians by Muslims grows more virulent every day.
Christian mothers are being forced to cut their own children’s throats. In Lebanon, Muslims have a signature way of killing Christian men: They cut off their genitals and stuff them in their mouths, then they take a knife and carve a cross on their chests.
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/beheadings-torture-massacres-persecution-of-christians-by-muslims-grows-more-virulent-every-day/
dude u have nothing real and logic to say…just calling me “You’re full of crap, Amino”
1st ty!!
2nd u said u have read the quran..but u can not get even one line of quran which support your thoughts..
quote=barenakedislam”don’t give a damn what you think your Qur’an says,
what matters is the way women and children are being treated in Islam today”
dude,i do not fucking care if very low minority of muslims nowdays treat their family in wrong manner.do not rely this on islam cuz i brought u evidence with numbers of aiah from quran talkin about rights of women CHANGE BLOG TITLE dun take about islam in general unless u just hate isalm for nothing!
quote=barenakedislam
why don’t they allow them to practice their religions in Muslim countries? Whey is there not one church or synagogue in most Muslims countries?
ROFL dude..told ya dun talk about things u dun know..u did not come to muslim countery…well,i will talk about egypt where at my small town there is 5 churches and christians go free at anytime to those churches.i have many christian friends in work,street where i live.i attend their weddings in churches…i am a doctor..my neighbour is christian..when he is ill,he call me,i go help him.
LOVE,PEACE FOR ME,U,ALL!!!
anyways ty for not removing my previous posts and i wish u wont remove this too
why remove my post?wordpress let u publish wht u want…and now u remove my message cuz it is the truth..the logic
Amino, FYI, I am NOT a dude.
Kindly, quit the foul language. Speak like a human being or don’t come here.
barenakedislam,Keep Harassing People….u do not have anything else to say about the topic u put in here….just Harassing People…and exposing only one point of view..congratz
Amino – Is there a gun to your head forcing you to come here? If not, I suggest you restrain yourself. Then you won’t get offended.
why you do not want me to come here?i bet cuz i won the arguemnt with evidence from quran,sunnah,history and real life examples.i revealed all the lies u talking about..
You did not win anything. All you have are words. I have the deeds and action of what Muslims do in countless videos for everyone to see firsthand. We have a a few sayings in English – “actions speak louder than words” and “talk is cheap.” If you want to feel like you won something, knock yourself out. Everyone in my audience can see you are nothing more than just a lot of talk. Now go away, you are starting to get annoying.
yea i agree that actions speak louder than words but u r talkin about videos showing actions of some Muslim extremists.Do not generalize this and do not rely this on islam.i can get you many videos of jews killing innocent childs , women in gaza today and yesterday.i do not look to jews as they are all like this(women.child murders)
here is some(warning:bloody material)
http://www.monde-magouilles.com/photos_guerre/gaza3.jpg
http://www.tellingfilms.co.uk/images/palestine/gaza-martyr.jpg
Amino – Oh goody, I can’t wait to see a lot of dead Palestinian terrorists.
to barenakedislam, amino is correct and so was david.
you are misleading in your titles and in your thoughts. Ignorant people come from all religions not just islamic, cruel and inhumane actions are made by many people of many different faiths not just islamic. it is not the Islamic religion that is causing these inhumane actions, those ignorant/control freak people are committing those crimes and using faith as their alabi…they twist the words of their faith, they pick and choose what would be taboo and what would not depending on their comfort or twisted convenience.
so do NOT relate all this sickening violence and inhumanity to a specific faith unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt evidence of that faith calling for the acts those monsters are committing.
concerning the existence of church’s and other houses of faith other than mosque’s in arab countries: the ONLY country which prohibits the building or existence of any other houses of faith other than mosque’s is KSA (kingdom of saudi arabia). However, if christian’s, jew’s, hindu’s or people of any other faith not mentioned would like to gather in the comfort of their own homes, compounds, private properties or embassy schools then it is their right. It is also their right to celebrate their holiday, heck we get vacation for foreign holidays which we don’t celebrate! why? so that those who do celebrate the holiday may enjoy it with their family.
by the way, of all the foreigners and non muslims whom i know…non of which are bothered by not having a public church to go to.
Last but not least – “actions speak louder than words”: So true, i’m american and i quote that saying all the time and apply it in my life. However, the video’s you are posting do NOT show or prove that Islam is the cause or the motive..what it does prove is that sick sex addicted men twist what they want to get off the hook..it proves that MAN (humans) can be irrational, narrow minded, hate filled and a devious blood thirsty monster. put aside what those monsters SAY is their faith and you will find that these inhumane actions occur EVERYWHERE.
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Edit: based on barenakedislam’s latest entry.
“Oh goody, I can’t wait to see a lot of dead palestinian terrorists”. now that is down right cruel! neither palestinian or isreali innocent civilians male/female/young/old deserve the bloodshed that they are facing nor is it fair. I don’t like what is happening to the innocent palestinian civilians but i am not going to stoop down to such an inhumane level as to say “Oh goody, I can’t wait to see a lot of dead isreali monsters”!!
I would not say that because i do not think that way and i do not wish cruelty and injustice on innocent people no matter their faith.
personally i thought you smarter than than to say such a hate filled not thought of comment as you did. and if you do mean it, if you do not care bout the bloodshed of the innocent then your blinded by hate and ignorance and no better than those those “terrorists” you talk about.
What a great website. Keep up the good work .You should try to ignore these apologist for Islamic supremacy. I’m sure they get most of their information from Conspiracy websites And Jew watch.
Thanks Trevor, the apologists don’t bother me because they can quote the Qur’an until the cows come home, it’s not the part of the Qur’an that condones the behavior of the terrorists, paedophiles, wife beaters, child abusers. Every kind of behavior these people engage in, they can find something in the Qur’an that enables them. When I hear millions of Muslims demanding that Islam be reformed and brought in line with the 21st Century, or at least the 19th Century, maybe then I’ll believe that Islam isn’t the threat to the civilized world that it presently is.
Here is a group that is trying to reform Islam, but they are considered apostates to most Muslims. http://www.reformislam.org/
I agree with you BareNakedislam; when I see hundreds of thousands in the streets protesting against the use of the holy book in the name of terrorism and every other brutality under the sun; then I might believe that Islam isn’t a murderous religion. I want to see overwhelming numbers of clerics calling for peace and reform and loudly condemning acts of violence against anyone and calling for true peace with the world (specifically, Isreal), then I might believe; but I don’t see that happening…
What about Joseph Fritz a christian of Austria who kept her 18 years old daughter in the basement of his house for 24 years and fathered 7 children, a recent case in UK published in the media, a man a christian or a jew raped her two daughters and made them pregnant 19 times and fathered 6 or 8 children with them. is it what christianity teaches or judaism do teach this to rape their daughters???? in india women are being burned alive just because they dont bear male baby, daughters are still burned or being burried alive in india over dowry? is this what hindu religion teaches??? where are those who point a finger on Islam i call upon them to come up and answer these questions. im sure they cannot because good and bad people are found in all religions. so why is Islam being victimised for nothing? this is an act of an individual. Islam totally prohibits all these brutal acts and even if anyone committs an “extra marital sexual intercourse (married but have illicit relationship with a woman and have an intercourse)” is to be stoned to death as per Islamic laws! so these kinda people are to be stoned to death if they committ sexual intercourse with there daughters.
I am truly shocked to read the kind of hate exhibited towards Islam by barenakedislam.
In the words of Janathan Swift “we have enough religion to hate but not enough religion to love”.
Please grow up. It has nothing to do with Islam or Christianity or Judaism.
It is all economics. Drive people against the wall and you will see all kinds of abnormal behaviour/reactions.
Violence aginst women is most reprehensible, no matter where it takes place. Places in Afghanistan and other parts of the world are culturally backward, where tribal systems are in force. In some cultures women were forced to jump into the funeral pyres of their deceased husbands.
It was not very long ago that women in Europe were burnt at the stake, by being branded witches by the clergy.
Some societies have progressed and some have not, for various reasons.
Let us not pass judgements. As Christ said “Judge not lest ye be judged”.
I am truly shocked to read the kind of hate exhibited towards Islam by barenakedislam.
In the words of Janathan Swift “we have enough religion to hate but not enough religion to love”.
Please grow up. It has nothing to do with Islam or Christianity or Judaism.
It is all economics. Drive people against the wall and you will see all kinds of abnormal behaviour/reactions.
Violence aginst women is most reprehensible, no matter where it takes place. Places in Afghanistan and other parts of the world are culturally backward, where tribal systems are in force. In some cultures women were forced to jump into the funeral pyres of their deceased husbands.
It was not very long ago that women in Europe were burnt at the stake, by being branded witches by the clergy.
Some societies have “progressed” and some have not, for various reasons.
Let us not pass judgements. As Christ said “Judge not lest ye be judged”.
What about Joseph Fritz a christian of Austria who kept her 18 years old daughter in the basement of his house for 24 years and fathered 7 children, a recent case in UK published in the media, a man a christian or a jew raped her two daughters and made them pregnant 19 times and fathered 6 or 8 children with them. is it what christianity teaches or judaism do teach this to rape their daughters???? in india women are being burned alive just because they dont bear male baby, daughters are still burned or being burried alive in india over dowry? is this what hindu religion teaches??? where are those who point a finger on Islam i call upon them to come up and answer these questions. im sure they cannot because good and bad people are found in all religions. so why is Islam being victimised for nothing? this is an act of an individual. Islam totally prohibits all these brutal acts and even if anyone committs an “extra marital sexual intercourse (married but have illicit relationship with a woman and have an intercourse)” is to be stoned to death as per Islamic laws! so these kinda people are to be stoned to death if they committ sexual intercourse with there daughters.
So what you seem to agree on is that is is not a religious but a cultural problem…..and a very severe problem we should all factively and vocally focus on routing out of our society. However, by comparing it too practices of the 1800’s you are realizing it is essentially a practice that belongs in 1800’s…realize many of these areas are really that far behind the times with womens rights and other issues. BUT…you can not compare a crazy man with chidren locked in his basement….just as you can not compare Manson just because he had a particular religion. THe primary difference and issue is not the religion but the silence from fear and cultural rejection of the people around the culprits. Look at any major culture change…suffrage slavery independence here in the US…unfortunately non of these great undertakings were accomplished by pacifity. There are large casualties in every undertaking…and the end result…Take a look at one of Jeffersons most famous quotes:
If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. …
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure.”
They have problems like every society…but it will never be better until the people stand for themselves….and if we can help give them the opprotunity…then let us do it.
It is one thing to have something written in a book as religion or law….truthfully these things only matter to the faithful…what is essential and more neccessary is to have it as enforced law. Not a reliuos law that is enforced. If a women is raped or beaten or another act takes place…the culprit must be punished accordingly. They need justice to served when speak out not doors closed…and political and law enforcement corruption is all but impossible to vanquish in these countries. That is way many who can move here. They may miss home….but as intolerable as we are here often…it does not compare to there home.
to bare naked islam
after all u’ve done…dont ever think u can sleep, walk even breath peacefully…
Hey pigass (what a fitting moniker), is that a threat? I haven’t done anything but report on what is going on all over the Muslim world.
you ve been doing this with islam for more than 1400 years,you know you not gona make it, you know WHO you ARE, you know that all world crises are because of you,,and for sure YOU KNOW THIS IS GONA END ONE DAY AND VERY SOON.
Hello all,
Most Religion of the world preaches peace, but a lot of times their followers do not abide by such. i live in Nigeria west Africa, a country where the population is roughly divided between muslims and christians. the muslims are predominantly in the northern part of the country, for about 8 decades now, there have been numerous cases in which muslim clerics urge the wanton killing of christians in the north, the most recent one was two weeks ago in which over 300 lives were lost, but repeatedly christians in the south refuse to retaliate. If anything happens anywhere in the world like the danish cartoon about mohammed, christians are slaughtered here, a christian teacher seizes the quran from a student in class during exams, the woman was murdered by students of the school. i could go on and on.
In my university, muslim students reel out hateful comments and posters about christians on campus with no single incidence, but when there was a modelling show on campus (mind you i do not attend such shows its against my christian conscience), muslim students stage a violent protest and destroyed properties on campus, when the miss world pageant was to take place in nigeria a couple of years ago, it led to violent rioting in the north, hundreds of people were killed.
The big question is why is there a higher probability than normal for muslims to perpetrate such acts, why is it so easy for them to kill others, why cant they take criticism like others.
Jesus told his followers, he who uses the sword will perish by the sword, if they persecute you in one place flee to another place, if someone slaps you on this side of your cheek, turn the other to him, if someone refuses to listen to you, shake the dust of your sandal and leave for another place, jesus said my kingdom is not part of this world if it were my attendants would have fought for me, Well a lot of christians did no listen to Jesus including the popes who financed the crusades,
But what did mohammed tell his followers to do when they are in such situations, this should give us a clue as to why muslims are more likely than other religions to spill out hatred openly and kill easily those who do not share same beliefs with them, why would muslims (sunnis and shias) keep on murdering themselves after more than 1000 years of dispute and the sheer scale of murderous hatred is amazing and using women and children bombers to blow rival mosques is just unimaginable.
please let us all be honest with ourselves and let the muslim world admit the peculiarities of their religion, so that maybe we could all have some little peace.
Hey…u monkey fucker admin…..
U know that….u r insulting ur religion too doing these kind of shits…..
I wanna face u may be in a chat room……or a private chat…..
until then…I wish god will bless u with all god’s bless to change ur mind
spinalx, that’s a good name for you, because you are seriously lacking in a spine. Grow up.
What r u on about Islam does not allow u to marry your daughter. Read carefully the below passage from the Qu’ran and you will see.
Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father’s sisters, Mother’s sisters; brother’s daughters, sister’s daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives’ mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful” (Surah Al-Nisa’ 4:23)
This honorable Ayah is the Ayah that establishes the degrees of women relatives who are never eligible for one to marry, because of blood relations, relations established by suckling or marriage. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, “(Allah said) I have prohibited for you seven types of relatives by blood and seven by marriage.” Ibn `Abbas then recited the Ayah,(Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: your mothers, your daughters, your sisters…) At-Tabari recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, “Seven degrees of blood relation and seven degrees of marriage relation are prohibited (for marriage).” He then recited the Ayah,(Forbidden to you (for marriage) are: your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, your father’s sisters, your mother’s sisters, your brother’s daughters, your sister’s daughters) and these are the types prohibited by blood relation.” (Translation of Ibn Kathir)
Here is lik if u don’t believe me http://unveilingchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/11/14/marrying-ones-own-daughter-in-islam-is-haram/
This site is against Islam so no-one take anything of it to be true cos they have not got any evidence or from the Qur’an or the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (Salallahu Aalaihi Wassallum) to support what they are saying.
Well, who thinks that this researcher proved anything at all? it is known that adultery cant prove parenthood relationship, but how can you connect this to having sex? adultery in islam is prohibited whether with a mans legal daughter or his illegal daughter or any other woman on earth.So if you want to legalize parenthood relationships between fathers and their children of adulterous relations,it means that we promote adultery in the society, saying its o.k. Thats why it is far more important to fight adultery, than trying to play smart and assume what might happen if the child is not connected to his father. after all the wrong cannot stop the right, marriage is the right, adultery is the wrong. concerning treatment of women, in brief, the holey Quraan does not contradict all accredited research in anthropology. That, who enjoys hatred will harm himself before harming others.regards to David from Israel,
Amino may as a Muslim in Egypt visit churches freely. That’s good. It used to be that way in Iran too but not now and I think we all know why. Today a Muslim who goes to hear Christian teaching is breaking the law of Iran and if he should actually become a Christian he is risking his life as Iran is seeking to make that punishable by death. It is already punishable by imprisonment. You Muslims reading this, try defending that if you can.
If it really is only a small number of Muslims who are that cruel, that they can overtake and rule a nation like Iran still amounts to a big problem. That Amino thinks it’s a small one is his most indefensible position. It’s an error a Muslim may more safely allow. Everyone else allows it at their own peril.
IT IS MOST IMPORTANT THAT ALL FORMS OF RELEGION SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE PLANET
Rabzy has a wonderful point. Wherever I look, I see some Imam call for bloodshed and Muslims all too eager to carry it out.
I’m quite happy with my beliefs, and if IMuslims believe me to be a “kuffir”, or less than human who must be attacked, made to feel “subdued”, and charged “jizzya” for being a “dhimmi”, that’s their prerogative. However, at the same time I can see them as uncivilized, uncouth stone-age idiots.
Get with the times – we’re in the 21st century, not 7th. Live and let live as they say, otherwise, instant Karma’s gonna get you (and pretty much has.)
Also, there are some 15 million Jews in the world, and about a billion Muslims.. Who has to fear who? Sheesh… When you constantly denegrate people and accuse them of being offspring of apes and dogs, shoot missiles into their schools and citiies, you’re asking for a retaliation.
JFYI – Bersheeba is mostly a Muslim town, I once lived not far. What genious at Hamas decided to target Bersheeba?!
As for BarenakedIslam’s videos – they don’t go far enough. I lived in the region as I mentioned, and I’ve seen the basest things done to people (MUSLIMS VS MUSLIMS).
ISLAM == HATE.
How the hell can this be blamed on Islam? It’s clearly stated in the Qur’an that it’s forbidden to marry your daughter/son. The people you mentioned are sick, twisted, devils. They obviously haven;’t got a clue to what Islam preaches. There are bad people in every religion and culture. Islam just seems to be in the spotlight for God-knows what reason (I don’t want some smart-ass reply to that, k?} The number of converts to Islam is rising. Why is that? I’m sorry if this offends you barenakedisalm but I just don’t see anything linked to Islam. I won’t try to convince you but at least learn more about why this ISN’T a religion of hate/violence. Your videos are proof that there are disgusting pedos in this world, NOT that Islam is preaching pedophilia. If you could give me ONE GOOD reason on why IT IS, I’m sold.
Salma, there are many examples of paedophilia being condoned in Islam, starting with the prophet Muhammad who married Aisha when she was 6 years old and consumated it when she was 9. This link has several more examples. Let me know what you think. http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/about-that-marrying-little-girls-thing/
this is not true at all islam doesnot permit any man to have sex with his daughter!!!…ignorant minds do nothing other than waste their times….islam no doubt is the best religion in the world ..try studying it and yw will come to know
Comment by amino on December 28, 2008 7:27 pm
yea i agree that actions speak louder than words but u r talkin about videos showing actions of some Muslim extremists.Do not generalize this and do not rely this on islam.i can get you many videos of jews killing innocent childs , women in gaza today and yesterday.i do not look to jews as they are all like this(women.child murders)
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I love how all the so called good Muslims, have mostly nothing to say about the heinous crimes being committed, in practically every nation on this planet by the way, and being done in the name of their religion. And when they do speak it’s don’t blame Islam because of a few extremists. A FEW EXTREMISTS? The silence, folks, is absolutely deafening. Not speaking up means you are in approval of the terrorists and their heinous activities. We have a saying over here in America,” Evil will triumph as long as good men do nothing.” We in America fled the evil religious tyranny in Europe, and their evil monarchies, and built our own nation where the individuals rights were as important as the nation. Then we educated all our children, including our daughters, and let the cream rise to the top, and the most amazing technologies started to spring forth about 100 years ago. Now we are the most amazing country on the planet. And yes a lot of us have gotten soft, but for the most part, we still have the American entrepreneurship that made up great. And don’t ever forget that we are armed to the teeth and there are 330,000,000 of us, and our country is over 1,000,000 square miles. And you really should include the whole North American Continent as one nation because our Canadian neighbors to the north are with us and they have another million square miles of real estate too. So thinking you can infiltrate us and beat us from within is really quite the foolish idea because the next time things start blowing up, no one, except the stupid liberals, will try to hold back everyday Americans who are ” Clinging to their religion and their guns ” as our new President so eloquently put it. And if you don’t think we know where you and your mosques are located, you are sadly mistaken. One thing every American has learned is “Keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer.” The first time you hit us we didn’t know anything about you. But now we know everything about you, and just exactly what you are all about. And you can thank one of those technologies that sprang forth from educating our sons and daughters, computers and the internet in our education of just exactly who you people are. We are not Islamophobics but defenders of our great nation and our freedoms. And make no mistake about it, we will prevail. Keep in mind that even though we are a young nation, as nations with history go, we have never been defeated, and we have the most advanced weapons in the world. That’s another one of those pesky technologies that sprang forth due to education. Every tool you try to use against us we probably created, so suffice it to say, we are ahead of you on how to use it most effectively. But I can tell by your arrogance that you truly believe we are stupid, and so I see bloodshed coming. But like the great Native American man Geronimo said, “Why did there have to be so many of them.” I’m sure that’s what you and all your Islamo Facist friends will say when America drives you and your terrorists friends from her shores with your turbans tucked between your legs.
Also I am absolutely convinced, that there is no way that Islam, as it stands, can peacefully co-exist in a secular society. It’s like trying to get oil to mix with water.
You are totally unaware of Islam. I will suggest you read Quran and then comment. Go to the site of Dr.Zakir Naik and get answers to your misconceptions. Islam ruled the world from 6th century to 13th century when entire europe was in “Dark Ages”. Why Muslims ruled then ?. Because they followed Quran and they were pioneer of all developed sciences today . Today they are away from religion as well as science and are in trouble. I am not asking any one to accept Islam by force but any one who reads Quran with unbiased mind, he/she can not reject Islam like Christina Lamb (British Journalist) who was caught by Afghans and today she is true Muslim. Read her story pls.
You may get the left wing liberals and the politically correct crowd to believe that, but you will never get the people like me, who by the way are the majority in this country, to try and appease your FALSE MUSLIM MODESTY. We do not not care if you are offended. As a matter of fact, we are offended that you get offended by our Democratic freedoms. If you don’t like America, then I suggest you get the hell out. We are not going to be ashamed for your shame anymore. You want war, then you have come to the right place, because we are not going to take it anymore. And if you think you are going to turn our Government on us, then you obviously have not read our Constitution, It says, “We the people,” We run this Government, We the people, not the other way around as your Quran would like it to be. That is exactly why the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution demands that we be armed, so our Government never got any big ideas and decided we weren’t smart enough to run our own lives, just like your Quran. Your Quran is the reason we have a separation of church and state clause in our Constitution, because America was formed because of religious tyranny in Europe. We ran from your kind of religious persecution. And we will not stand by and allow another form of religious persecution to take control or our lives again.
Comment by Asad
Because they followed Quran and they were pioneer of all developed sciences today .
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By the way, I don’t know what they have been teaching you in Muslim school, but what wasn’t created or invented in America really isn’t worth mentioning. Aircraft, light bulbs, that computer and Windows operating system that you are using, Nuclear bombs and power plants, telephones, cell phones, practically anything you can name.
Comment by Asad on January 24, 2009 5:43 pm
You are totally unaware of Islam.
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Being a veteran I understand the art of infiltration.
Osama Bin Laden once said, and I quote, “No Americans are innocent because they pay taxes and support their government and thereby that makes them guilty.”
By that line of reasoning then, no Muslims are innocent because they move into communities all over the world, build their Mosques and schools and after they get their communities thriving then they allow the extremists, as you like to call them, to infiltrate and terrorize the people around the communities into submission by protests at first, then later on by blowing things up, stabbing people, raping women, cutting heads off so as to get your way with FALSE MUSLIM MODESTY. YOU KNOW, ACTING LIKE WE HAVE OFFENDED YOU. By the Muslims not speaking up and telling us who the extremists are, then they are obviously approving of what they are doing and thereby that makes them all guilty because the extremists could not function without a Muslim base of operation. No military operation can function on an island without support. And trying to convince us that the Quran requires not telling on other Muslims because they are fellow believers, and we are Infidels doesn’t make their actions any less wrong. Murder is murder. And by the way, if you immigrated here, then you are guests here, not the other way around. And if you have become a citizen, then you swore an oath of allegiance to the Constitution of this Country, and if you were born here the same applies. Violating that is treason not only to the country but also against your fellow Americans. We have absolutely no use for traitors as all of you will discover if you continue down the path you are going.
Just view debate between Dr.William Campbell(American scholar – consider himself Expert on Quran as well) and Dr. Zakir Naik (Muslim Scholar from India (Founder of IRF and Peace TV)
It was held in USA. We will find answer to all questions in that debate.
We cant be good Muslims if we donot respect Gesus and Moses more than our parents, and our lives.
We cant expect forgiveness from Allah, unless we believe in Jesu and Moses and all other Messengers.
We are very tolerent. Islam means peace. Islam says if you kill only one innocent human being it is asif you have killed whole humanity. Muslims today are mnot model Muslims. thats why they are struggling. Do u know what Islam said about slaves, rights of women, neighbours , non muslims 1400 years ago. Just read comments of great non muslims like nepoleon, bernard sha , churchel, abraham lincon (ignore spell mistakes) about Islam and Muhammad (peace be upon him). It is not our religion, every latest law of Allah is for whole mankind.
Look at the existence (name) of this site. Islam never says so, There is no concept of illegal relationship in Islam. Just compare crime rati in Saudi Arabia (where Islamic laws are prevelent) with USA. Islam protects entire society. We donot say you are wrong, but pls follow only true teachings of jesus not chages by priests. Quran allows to marry only Jew or christian girl. why because we believe that they had book of God.
latest book of Gos is Quran . Last messenger is Muhammad, so latest law does prevail. I challenge if any one can prove that even a single commandment in Quran is against humanity as a whole. It might hurt the one who is against whole humanity and those are propegating against Islam.
After 9/11 Islam spreadingin all over the world. Why because people were interesetd to know why it happened, what islam is? what Quran is?
when they read Quran , they become Muslims.
All of them have said that they have become Muslims by reading Quran not by meeting a Mulim. Muslim majority etoday is not true representative of Islam
One thing I hear over and over, “Just read the Quran and you will see, Islam is a religion of peace.” That is really amusing, considering it is written in Arabic, and Arabic is the only authorized language allowed. You know I suspect most Muslims have difficulty understanding it too, since Arabic would not be their native tongue, but their second language. It reminds me when the Catholic Church would not allow the Bible to be written in any language except Latin, and anyone caught in possession of a Bible was burned at the stake. The people had no understanding of what the Bible said, except what the Priests told them. And in those days we had the Inquisitions, the burnings, the hangings, the beheadings, and the flights from Europe to the Colonies which later became the United States. And I suspect that is exactly what is going on with the Quran, because I see on video your Imans or Priests or whatever it is you call your leaders screaming for Infidel blood and world Domination of your beliefs. I see demonstrations in the streets of London, the protesters screaming, how dare one of Parliaments members, an Infidel, enter into their community. Can you imagine, that a leader, a citizen, is not allowed to go in certain part of his jurisdiction?
I tell you right now, that if you people don’t stand up , in one voice and scream for the removal of these trouble makers, there will be bloodshed, and you will be driven from every secular nation on the planet. Don’t mistake our hospitable nature for weakness. After all, we are an Immigrant nation, and we understand culture shock upon arrival in our nation, but we expect you to assimilate, not separate and cause division and anarchy. We will not continue to tolerate this type of behavior, where innocent blood is shed because you feel, we, in our country, have offended you, the guests. We left your tyrannical world hundreds of years ago, and we will not allow your kind of beliefs to follow us here and take us over again. If you don’t like it here get the hell out.
And we don’t care that you don’t like the fact that we support Israel. It was ok for the jews to live there until the Brits decided to give them the land they were living on. You own the entire middle east, and you begrudge them that tiny sliver of land they live on.
This is exactly the problem with your beliefs, completely intolerant of other people. You’ve been fighting a war for 60 years over a piece of land that was completely worthless, arid desert. Then the Jews took ownership and made the desert bloom, and now you want it back. But you don’t want it back because of that, you want it back because the Jews aren’t Muslims, because they have a secular Democratic government, and you feel threatened by this.
Comment by Asad on January 25, 2009 3:22 am
Look at the existence (name) of this site. Islam never says so, There is no concept of illegal relationship in Islam.
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Whether or not not the Quran says so is not important. People follow the examples of their leaders, and this is what your leader Muhammad did with Aisha, and this is acceptable behavior in many parts of the middle east, and I’ve seen your leaders explaining this to be so. And I quote, “We are just following the example of Muhammad and Aisha. “
I just want to say to 08hayabusa, good on you !
Everything you say is correct. At least you have a constitution in the USA, but you should see what’s happening in other countries, like Australia, for example. Here, Muslims move en masse into previously Anglo/European suburbs in the capital cities, then they perform quite a few rapes, muggings and killings, and the entire previous community flees in terror to a different suburb. It’s working so well. I’ve driven through what were once gentle Aussie neighbouhoods with big back yards, women talking over the fence and kids playing in the street. Now they are Muslim strongholds, and it was shocking to see, for all your above reasons. We always called ourselves “the lucky country”, not only because of our relative wealth and easy-going way of life, but also because we always felt that we were so far removed from all the strife in other countries (not that our brave men ever shirked from fighting for the civilised world’s freedoms) . Then we imported a whole lot of trouble, when our Gov’t decided we were an ‘economy’ and not a ‘community’. They are still importing such populations for the sole sake of economics.
Aussie’s don’t currently have a ‘right to bear arms’, only a right to be subjugated by the English Crown. I never believed that “political correctness” would lead us here. It’s time we dispensed with it.
Some of the videos on this site have shaken me to my core, they are so horrific. Human’s inhumanity to human. And whilst it’s true that some of these atrocities are not limited to Muslims, the female mutilations (I can’t even write the whole phrase) and stonings are Islamic practises. My prayer for the whole world is that kindness, generosity, and peace be allowed to rule, and that all cruelty cease to exist. And I hope that all the time and effort the administrator of this site, and all the contributors too, have not used their time in vain, but that it will affect the world for good, for freedom and liberty and happiness.
PS: a couple of other things-
* The Arabs did gives us numerals, so that’s something.
* Israel is secular but not currently a democracy, as I understand it.
* Getting Cat Steven’s to reject his amazing musical talents; singing, songwriting, and playing guitar unlike any other, for the sake of Islam, is reason enough alone to resent it!
Thank you for the kind words, Jardin. I’m afraid I must take all the credit and/or blame for this site myself as I am doing it all alone, just one woman in NYC, trying to help show the world what Islam has in store for us if we sit back and do nothing to stop it. If you find any stories that you think would be appropriate on this site, please don’t hesitate to send them to me and I will post them. I can’t possibly find everything that should be here on my own and occasionally my readers do send me good stuff to post.
Thanks for visiting.
if a Hindu or Christan fucks her sister or mother, does it means that there religions permits them to do so? same is the case in islam.individual acts does not represent true islamic teaching.there is nothing in islam against logic.to know islam u should take it as a whole
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Comment by barenakedislam on January 26, 2009 11:15 am
Thank you for the kind words, Jardin. I’m afraid I must take all the credit and/or blame for this site myself as I am doing it all alone, just one woman in NYC, trying to help show the world what Islam has in store for us if we sit back and do nothing to stop it. If you find any stories that you think would be appropriate on this site, please don’t hesitate to send them to me and I will post them. I can’t possibly find everything that should be here on my own and occasionally my readers do send me good stuff to post.
Thanks for visiting.
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I just want to say thank you for taking the time to not only set this site up but I see you are really staying on top of it too. I know it takes a lot of time.
Thanks,
Jim
Thanks Jim, I appreciate your being a regular visitor and taking the time to make important and insightful comments.
Bonni
your welcome
Islam is never like what you are trying to show people. Islam honors humanity not the opposite. You have to know that and you must have alive concise that speaks the truth in whatever concerns news or events. If you think you are getting people apart from Islam with these attempts, i am afraid to tell you that you are wrong, and see how large population coming towards Islam, the final religion of God.
Khaled, Islam is exactly like it is shown on this site. The words and deeds come right from Muslims themselves. Or are you calling your fellow Muslims all liars?
@Amino..
A lot of verses in the qur’an was abrogated by the Sword Verse; 9.5 – approximately
800.
Regarding the rights of women in islamic society, remember 4.34.
Please read and quote the two verses for us.
I got plenty of verses for you to read.
Amino wrote:
“A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission.” The people asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! How can we know her permission?” He said, “Her silence (indicates her permission).” (Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67)
In civilized countries the women choose their own men, date them, have sex with them and marry them, as they please.
Little girls 9 years of age rely on their parents and their decisions. If parents ask their daughter 9 years of age, if she wants to do something, that she does not know the consequences of, how would you expect her to know, whats good for her.
She can see her friends marry in a young age and to old men, and she thinks, that that is the norm, and she does not have the right to say ‘no’.
She was brought up to think, that, what’s in the qur’an is the bare and naked truth.
Children has rights.. Women has rights.. And they are not quoted in the qur’an.
Maybe you should read your qu’ran and hadith again.
Muhammed was a pedo pervert and a killer.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-home.htm
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WWMD.htm
Islam is less religion and more illness.
A true religion does not mandate violence against other people.
What about Joseph Fritz a christian of Austria who kept her 18 years old daughter in the basement of his house for 24 years and fathered 7 children, a recent case in UK published in the media, a man a christian or a jew raped her two daughters and made them pregnant 19 times and fathered 6 or 8 children with them. is it what christianity teaches or judaism do teach this to rape their daughters???? in india women are being burned alive just because they dont bear male baby, daughters are still burned or being burried alive in india over dowry? is this what hindu religion teaches??? where are those who point a finger on Islam i call upon them to come up and answer these questions. im sure they cannot because good and bad people are found in all religions. so why is Islam being victimised for nothing? this is an act of an individual. Islam totally prohibits all these brutal acts and even if anyone committs an “extra marital sexual intercourse (married but have illicit relationship with a woman and have an intercourse)” is to be stoned to death as per Islamic laws! so these kinda people are to be stoned to death if they committ sexual intercourse with there daughters.
People from other religions, all over the world are trying to defame Islam and blame Islam for disgracing women, thus spreading hatred and fabricating false things about Islam without even providing any concrete evidence. What made me write this article is not actually to disgrace any religion or christianity or judaism but just to unveil the actual facts about christianity and what actually the (modern day) Bible teachings are about women, one can easily make a judgement without prejudice that whether Islam allows sex with their daughters or christianity, is Islam a disgrace to women or christinianty? I pray to Almighty Allah to help me and guide me to speak the truth. I will try my level best to provide all available references from the Bible and other relevant books termed authenticated amongst Christians and Jews;
Fathers sticking their fingers into their daughters’ vaginas before marriage in the Bible
First I would like to mention some references from Bible and then expand the discussion further into details;
Deuteronomy 22:13-17
22:13 If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, 22:14 And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: 22:15 Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: 22:16 And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; 22:17 And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city
Let us look at the these Verses in the Bible: “If a man takes a wife and, after laying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, ‘I married this woman but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,’ then the girl’s father and mother shall bring proof [how do you think they would do that?] that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl’s father will say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.’ Then her parents shall display the cloth [the father would literally stick his two fingers covered with a piece of cloth into his daughter's vagina before she gets married and keep that bloody cloth for as long as his daughter is married] with before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:13-18)” .
Here is a more clear translation from Hebrew Resources: “The girl’s father and mother shall produce the evidence of the girl’s virginity before the elders of the town at the gate. And the girl’s father shall say to the elders, “I gave this man my daughter to wife, but he had taken an aversion to her; so he has made up charges, saying, ‘I did not find your daughter a virgin.’ But here is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity!” And they shall spread out the cloth before the elders of the town. (From the New JPS translation, Deuteronomy 22:15-17)”
The New JPS translation of Deuteronomy 22:15-17 makes it even more clear about having the parents of the girl displaying the bloody piece of cloth before the elders of the town.
According to the Talmud, the cloth should be “A cloth of less than 3 square finger-breadths. (From the Talmud, Eruvin 29b-30a and Succah 16a)”, and before it is being used, it should be “soft, woolen and clean. (From the Talmud, Niddah 17a)”
Numbers 31:7, 17-18 further prove that fingers were inserted into virgin girls!
Let us look at the verses in question:
Numbers 31:7, 17-18 “They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man…….Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.”
You can read the entire story of the Israelites and the Midianites in the short chapter of Numbers 31 for more details.
Now, few points to mention here:
1- All of the males (infants, children, grown men, and elderly) were killed.
2- Every woman who was not a virgin was also killed.
3- Every girl who was a virgin was saved as a spoil of war.
First of all, we need to picture the whole scenario here so we can get a better understanding of what exactly went on. After the Israelite’s victory over the Midianites, and after the capturing of all of their lands and people, the thousands of the remaining Midianite people were gathered at once. The remaining men and all male children were taken and slaughtered. The women were all lined up for checking.
Now how do you think they were able to tell who is a virgin from a non-virgin, especially that all of the men seem to have been killed first. Certainly a newly wed girl who didn’t have children yet could easily deny that she was ever touched by a man. Do you think the Israelites just questioned the women and the girls and took their words at face value? Of course not. From all of the evidence that we have in this article’s sections above, and from the clear picture of what took place from events in the Numbers 31:7, 17-18 verses, there is no question in my mind that:
1- Every single mother was slaughtered along with the men.
2- Every single “young” girl was literally checked by inserting a finger(s) into her vagina to tell whether she was a virgin or not. Perhaps most likely also, men did the checking.
3-year old girls were literally raped!
We also need to know that according to the Jewish Talmud’s elaboration on the historical events that took place in the Numbers 31, 17-18, Moses and his men literally inserted their penises into girls who were as young as 3 years old (three years old). Here is the proof: (Ma’az Allah, Astgafirullah, naqle kuffar, kuffar na bashad) they even didn’t spared Moses (peace be upon him), though we Muslims are unanimously agreed the Bible is corrupted and have been manuscript by the then Christians and Jews.
Children
Sometimes one has to read a passage twice to believe what has been written in the Sacred Books of Judaism: what has been decreed the way to a holy life by the “sages of blessed memory… whose words are the natural sounds of Judaism” [131]:
Said Rabbi Joseph, “Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And one can be liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is menstruating, to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer [of what lies beneath]. If she was married to a priest, she may eat food in the status of priestly rations. If one of those who are unfit for marriage with her had intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If any of those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her had intercourse with her, he is put to death on her account, but she is free of responsibility [M.Nid. 5:4].
Sanhedrin 7/55B [132]
R. Nahman bar Isaac said. “They made the decree that a gentile child should be deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15], so that an Israelite child should not hang around with him and commit pederasty [as he does].”
For said R. Zira, “I had much anguish with R. Assi, and R. Assi with R. Yohanan, and R. Yohanan with R. Yannai, and R. Yannai with R. Nathan b. Amram, and R. Nathan b. Amram with Rabbi [on this matter]: ‘From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]‘? And he said to me, ‘On the day on which he is born.’ But when I came to R. Hiyya, he said to me, ‘From the age of nine years and one day.’ And when I came and laid the matter before Rabbi, he said to me, ‘Discard my reply and adopt that of R. Hiyya, who declared, “From what age is a gentile child deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [described at Lev.15]? From the age of nine years and one day.”‘
[37A] Since he is then suitable for having sexual relations, he also is deemed unclean with the flux uncleanness [of Lev.15].”
Said Rabina, “Therefore a gentile girl who is three years and one day old, since she is then suitable to have sexual relations, also imparts uncleanness of the flux variety.”
That is self-evident!
Abodah Zarah 36B-37A [133]
The basis for these rulings is the following Mishnaic passage of Tractate Niddah (filth):
A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse. “A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse,” the words of R. Meir. And sages say, “Three years and one day old.”
And if a Levir has had intercourse with her, he has acquired her. And they are liable on her account because of the law prohibiting intercourse with a married woman. And she imparts uncleanness to him who has intercourse with her when she is menstruating to convey uncleanness to the lower as to the upper layer. If she was married to a priest, she eats heave offering. If one of those who are unfit for marriage has intercourse with her, he has rendered her unfit to marry into the priesthood. If one of all those who are forbidden in the Torah to have intercourse with her did so, they are put to death on her account. But she is free of responsibility.
If she is younger than that age, intercourse with her is like putting a finger in the eye.
(Mishnah Niddah 5:4) [134]
Thus, one “of the many important issues worked out in the Mishnah concerns proper conduct with women,” [135] and the “entire society of Judaism – that is, the community formed by the Torah – found in the Talmud those modes of thought and inquiry, those media of order and value, that guided the formation of public affairs and private life as well.” [136]
While it is reassuring to see there was at least some limit as to what the sages would declare holy and moral, this ruling had severe implications on the interpretation of other topics as well. The Tannaïtic Midrash Sifre to Numbers in §157 comments on the above quoted commandment of Moses to kill the Midianite women as well as the male children:
“Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that has known a man by sleeping with him.(Num 31:17).
[This] refers to her who has slept with a man as well as her who is suitable for intercourse, even when she has not slept with a man…
But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves. From here R. Shimon b. Yohai used to say: a Proselyte girl who became a proselyte in the age of less than three years and one day, is rendered fit to marry into the priesthood.” [137]
According to the Tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were “suitable for having sexual relations.” [138]
Bibliography:
[131] Ibid., vol.XXI.A-D, Tractate Bava Mesia, Atlanta: Scholars Press 1990, p.ix-x.
[132] Ibid., vol.XXIII.B, Tractate Sanhedrin 1984, 150. See also vol.XIX.A, Tractate Qiddushin 10a-b, 1992, 33. “Menstruating” here of course refers to the ritual “flux uncleanness” described in Lev.15.
[133] Ibid., vol.XXV.A, Tractate Abodah Zarah, 1991, 168. Emphasis original.
[134] J. Neusner, The Talmud of Babylonia. A complete outline, Part IV. The Division of Holy Things. B. Number 37. 1995, 704.
[135] Neusner 1993, 41.
[136] Neusner 1995, 7.
[137] Kuhn 1959, §157, 652f. My translation. In general, proselytes are not allowed to marry into the priesthood.
[138] Ibid., §157, footnote 86, 653.
The Bible is a book that had been badly corrupted by the man-made Jewish cultural nonsense through the “scribes”. As we’ve seen above, GOD Almighty condemned the scribes in Jeremiah 8:8 and said they turned the Bible into a lie. The scribes are man made laws and lies that had been inserted into the Bible as Divine Revelations from GOD Almighty. Certainly, the “fathers inserting their fingers into their daughters’ vaginas” law is a scribes’ corruption in the Bible, as Almighty Allah cannot give these instructions and orders to anyone.
It is just an eye opener, my Muslim brothers all over the world commenting and giving references of Holy Quran and Hadith that Islam is not a disgrace to women neither do Islam permits sex with their daughters, but I have tried to compile the references from the Bible for any just person to judge itself whether Islam is a disgrace to women or Christianity or Judaism. I pray for my Muslim brothers who have compiled these references and made available to all the people. May Allah guide us and help us. Ameen
Let us further explore which religion is a disgrace to women, Islam or Christianity, which religion allows to have sex with your brother, which religion have portrayed women as an object of LUST;
I urge all the people my Muslim brothers and all my fellow Christians to read and verify the references I have quoted below by yourself and then ask yourself which religion gives dignity and pride to women and which religion have made women a toy to play and allowing to have sex with their real brothers even;
GIRL would literally have sex with her brother, and the bible sings glory-songs about it!
Song of Songs 8:1-3 “If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother’s breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother’s house– she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me.”
You know what’s really alarming about this pornographic and sick verse? It is the fact that she wished if her lover were her brother so that it wouldn’t cause them any scandal to bring him home without secret so that they can be alone together, and then she can basically have sex with him. Think about it. This verse is doing the following:
1- Singing for and approving of the fact that she wished if he were her brother.
2- If she had a brother who looked as hot as him, then it’s ok for her to fantasize about the brother. The bible actually sings glory-songs for it and approves it! At least she would do it and the bible would have no problem with it.
Here is the alarming question:
I don’t care what the pornified whores of the corrupt and man-altered bible say and do, because they are irrelevant to me. As far as I am concerned, they can all get lost to Hell where they belong. But the burning question and the ultimate question is this:
Is this whoredom and garbage really from GOD Almighty? I mean, would GOD Almighty really say something like this, and approve of something like this? Her boyfriend like her brother?! And in her mother’s house?!
Allah Almighty Said in the Holy Quran:
“Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: “This is from God,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (Holy Quran, 2:79)”
2- Women’s breasts are important sexual objects, especially for licking and sucking!
Her sexy breasts are quite “satisfying”:
Let us look at Song of Solomon 8:10 “Dear brothers, I’m a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full— And when my lover sees me, he knows he’ll soon be satisfied.”
She is a virgin with full swelling breasts. When her lover meets her, he will be satisfied from those swelling breasts! Obviously, she is referring to licking, sucking and other pornographic things that I can’t mention here. Believe me this verse is not talking about them worshiping GOD Almighty together when they meet!! It is clearly and indisputably referring to graphic sex that involves her swelling breasts and other things such as intercourse.
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:5 “Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies.”
Let us look at Song of Songs 1:13 “My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts.”
Praising the bed that they had sex on: Let us look at Song of Songs 1:16 “How handsome you are, my lover! Oh, how charming! And our bed is verdant”
Let us look at Song of Songs 1:2-4 “Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth– for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you–let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!” I don’t think this would be appropriate for a kid under 18 to read. Also, I don’t think it is appropriate to have such open sexuality in a divine book anyway.
His right arm sexually feeling her body: Let us look at Song of Songs 2:6 “His left arm is under my head, and his right arm embraces me.”
Let us look at Song of Songs 3:4 “Scarcely had I passed them when I found the one my heart loves. I held him and would not let him go till I had brought him to my mother’s house, to the room of the one who conceived me.” So in other words, she was not married to him, and when she found him, she took him back to her bed room to have illegal sex with him? If she were married to him, she wouldn’t take him to her “mother’s house”. She would take him to their house.
Let us look at Song of Songs 3:10 “Its posts he made of silver, its base of gold. Its seat was upholstered with purple, its interior lovingly inlaid by the daughters of Jerusalem.” Why does the Bible teach young men to spend all of their time and effort to try to impress all of the girls in their town so they can possibly end in bed with them?
3- Fantasizing about a girl he calls his “sister”. Her vagina tastes like wine for him. And they had sex all night long. After he satisfied her really good, she wished if he were her brother (her biological brother nursed by her “mother’s breast” as she said) so she doesn’t have to take him home secretly:
Note: Even though she may not be his biological sister, but calling her a “sister” in a pornographic and sick situation as shown in details below is not proper, and may suggest that the sick pervert would fantasize about his biological sister if he had one.
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:9 “You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride; you have stolen my heart with one glance of your eyes, with one jewel of your necklace.” Fantasizing about his sister? at least he shows in this verse that he would!.
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:10 “How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride! How much more pleasing is your love than wine, and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!” Making love to his own sister? “pleasing is your love (making???) than wine”?
Let us look at Song of Songs 4:12 “You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride; you are a spring enclosed, a sealed fountain.”
Showing off her breasts and vagina to him:
Sleeping with his sister: Let us look at Song of Songs 5:4 “I slept but my heart was awake. Listen! My lover is knocking: ‘Open to me, my sister, my darling, my dove, my flawless one. My head is drenched with dew, my hair with the dampness of the night.’ I have taken off my robe (i.e., she showed his breasts and vagina to him. Underwears and bras didn’t exist back then!) must I put it on again? I have washed my feet, must I soil them again? My lover thrust his hand through the latch-opening; my heart began to pound for him.” What a disgusting way for someone to talk so pervertly about his sister and/or about her brother like that!!
Let us look at Song of Songs 5:8 “O daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you– if you find my lover, what will you tell him? Tell him I am faint with love.” Teaching women to be sexually too open.
His sister’s vagina tastes like “wine”:
“How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince’s daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman’s hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.
…….
I said ‘I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.’ May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine. (The NIV Bible, Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)”
According to the documentary film “Sex in the Bible” on A&E TV Station, the Hebrew translation to “Your naval” is referring to the woman’s VAGINA.
Salman Lakhani
You are quoting text from the old testament.
Christianity starts with the new testament. It begins with Jesus, who taught us to treat other people, as we would like to be treated by other people.
No real christian person live by the old testament.
Do you see any where in the bible, that Jesus tells his followers to act badly to other people?
You wrote:
“How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince’s daughter! Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of a craftsman’s hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. Your neck is like an ivory tower. Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath Rabbi.”
Does it say any where any thing about the age of that daughter?
Do you see anyone following that example in the christian world?
No! You don’t.
But Muhammed the pedo and killer is obviously the most perfect person and the example to follow for all muslims ind the world.
That is just disgusting.
Barenaked and pinstripe and other who reviled my religion,
it seems so hard for you to see the difference between religion and believer. What a person have done is the responsibility of him, not others connected to him by his religion, his tribe, familiy, nor his religion itself. If you ask if they are liars, yes they are liar, coz they used the Holy Scriptures to justify their lust and ambition. The filthy life style of western (movies, magz, clubs etc) act like a daily therapy has misleaded and twisted your mind. I can’t understand how you can revile Islam while you can actually read.
“But Muhammed the pedo and killer is obviously the most perfect person and the example to follow for all muslims ind the world.”
The Prophet Muhammad SAW has a noble purpose in his marriage with Aisha (beside the purpose to tie family to Abu Bakar). Or we can say Allah SWT has written a greater destiny behind her life line. The Prophet Muhammad SAW only live a decade with Aisha. A very short time rather than what she later accomplished. Accusing the marriage as pedophilia act is far from context, just like accusing US as barbaric-war-maniac country just by watching the news.
Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahi (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet, ‘He said, “I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that…” Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p.285.
So, why was the angel Gabriel gave this revelation?
Aisha later called The Mother of believer,
What does “The Mother of believer” means?
So far as the Hadith or sayings of the Prophet is concerned, Aishah is one of four persons (the others being Abu Hurrah, Abdullah ibn Umar, and Ana ibn Malik) who transmitted more than two thousand sayings. From her, 2210 Hadith have come, out of which 174 Hadith are commonly agreed upon by both Bukhari and Muslim. Many of her transmissions pertain to some of the most intimate aspects of personal behavior which only someone in Aishah’s position could have learnt. What is most important is that her knowledge of Hadith was passed on in written form by at least three persons including her nephew Urwah who became one of the greatest scholars among the generation after the Companions. It is the claim of the Scholars of Islam that without her, half of the Ilm-I-Hadith [knowledge, understanding of the Hadith (and Islam)] would have perished.
As a teacher she had a clear and persuasive manner of speech and her power of oratory has been described in superlative terms by al-Ahnaf who said: “I have heard speeches of Abu Bakr and Umar, Uthman and Ali and the Khulafa up to this day, but I have not heard speech more persuasive and more beautiful from the mouth of any person than from the mouth of Aishah.”
It was the aforementioned qualities of Aisha and the Prophet’s guidance in molding these capabilities for the service of Islam, were the main reasons, why the Prophet Married young Aisha, and not the perverted reasons brought forth by misguided orientalists.
The life of Aishah is a proof that a woman can be far more learned than men and that she can be the teacher of scholars and experts. Her life is also a proof that a woman can exert influence over men and women and provide them with inspiration and leadership. Aisha is a continuing inspiration and role model to today’s youth who are diligently searching for an example amongst the pop stars, movie actresses and sports stars.
Muhammad the killer, wow, now, let’s put aside your filthy-shallow thoughts about Muhammad SAW and listen to your experts comments.
“Four years after the death of Justinian, A.D. 569, was born at Mecca, in Arabia the man who, of all men exercised the greatest influence upon the human race . . . Mohammed . . .”
Sources:
John William Draper, A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe, London 1875, Vol. 1, pp. 329-330.
“Muhammad was the soul of kindness, and his influence was felt and never forgotten by those around him.”
(D.C. Sharma, The Prophets of The East, Calcutta, 1935, pp. 12)
“Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?”
* Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.
“It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher.”
* Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD,Madras,1932, p. 4.
Speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) Mahatma Gandhi says in (Young India),
“I wanted to know the best of one who holds today’s undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind….I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life.”
“He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope’s pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports.”
* Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.
“My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular level.”
* Michael H. Hart, THE 100: A RANKING OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN HISTORY, New York: Hart Publishing Company, Inc., 1978, p. 33.
“Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty, he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five, his employer, recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived, remained a devoted husband.
“Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded “Read.” So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: “There is one God.”
“In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumours of God’s personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, “An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being.” “At Muhammad’s own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: “If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever.”
* James A. Michener, “ISLAM: THE MISUNDERSTOOD RELIGION,” in READER’S DIGEST (American edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70.
“It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran. . . The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith an devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. ‘I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honours of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.”
* Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay, HISTORY OF THE SARACEN EMPIRE, London, 1870, p. 54.
Lets open the Bible and Its latest update, no, not the New Testament, Its The Holy Qur’an.
“The Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.”
[Bible - John 14:26]
The chief priests and Levites asked John the Baptist, “If you are not the Christ (Messiah), and not Elijah – are you THAT Prophet? (The chief priests and levites was expecting a prophet based on Bible prophecy).
[Bible - John 1:20]
Jesus, the son of Mary, said, “A messenger will come after me, named Ahmad.”
[Noble Quran 61:6]
Pinstripe
Thankyou for accepting anyway that the quoted references are from Bible though they are from Old Testament but are valid, none of the christian theologians have come up with a rebuttal about these verses quoted above from old testament as the old testament is also revered as valid in christianity.
You questioned about the age of the girl, is the age important to have sex? if that girl is older then u mean to that its okay to have sex with the brother and if she is young then its not okay?
it is very much clear that she was a virgin and was a young unmarried girl, see reference below;
Let us look at Song of Solomon 8:10 “Dear brothers, I’m a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full— And when my lover sees me, he knows he’ll soon be satisfied.”
Salman Lakhani
You still don’t get it..
No one lives by the old testament anymore.
Islam is the only religion with a law system. And the qur’an is built on the Torah, the bible, old arabic pagan religion and sarathustra religion from the old Persia. One big mess with a whole lot of contradictions blended with equal violence and insanity.
I don’t care about, what’s written in the old testament or the new.. I’m not religious.
I live by the democracy and believe in real and alive human beings.
Gods don’t exist. Therefore you cannot use your qur’an for anything but in a toilet.
Maybe you should listen and watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwA3jErg9Bc
Remember that christianity and judaism both went through the reformation.
Islam went through a reformation to wahhabism, not for anything better, but for the worse. Back to basic islam.
I know, it’s hard to accept, that islam is a violent religion/ideology, but that is the truth.
Pinstripe
We all have read above as mentioned that what kinda reformation actually Judaism and Christianity went through to have sex with your daughter and brother…. no christian is a christian if he just believes in new testament and altogether neglects old testament in its entirety.
Since you dont even believes in existence of God, The Creator, The Creator of the Universe, it would take things into different directions either case if i would give you some more examples, see the difference between me and you, you denied exsitence of God, i didnt abused you, you abused Quran by saying the words i dont wanna quote here i didnt said anything, u used bad words about our Beloved Prophet which is literally showing how filthy approach you have but still i tried to refrain from using bad words. This is what Islam is all about my dear fellow, what difference would then be left between me and you if i will also abuse you. i have quoted you valid references from Bible (importantly Old Testament is called Bible also) and you giving lame excuses about bible new and old testaments.
Remember the difference between an animal ( a dog) and a human (man) is a dog barks but man doesnt barks….i hope you would have understood what my point is….
To BNI,
I thought maybe you could use a little humor in light of all the distressing news.
A friend of mine sent me this e-mail.
A craigslist posting someone found and linked.
To the Guy Who Mugged Me Downtown (Downtown, Savannah)
Reply to: pers-982078099@craigslist.org [?]Date:2009-01-06, 3:43AM EST
I was the white guy with the black Burrberry jacket that you demanded I hand over shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my girlfriend. You also asked for my girlfriend’s purse and earrings. I hope you somehow come across this message.
I’d like to apologize. I didn’t expect you to crap your pants when I drew my pistol after you took my jacket. Truth is, I was wearing the jacket for a reason that evening, and it wasn’t that cold outside. You see, my girlfriend had just bought me that Kimber 1911 .45 ACP pistol for Christmas, and we had just picked up a shoulder holster for it that evening. Beautiful pistol, eh? It’s a very intimidating weapon when pointed at your head, isn’t it?
I know it probably wasn’t a great deal of fun walking back to wherever you’d come from with that brown sludge flopping about in your pants. I’m sure it was even worse since you also ended up leaving your shoes, cellphone, and wallet with me. I couldn’t have you calling up any of your buddies to come help you try to mug us again. I took the liberty of calling your mother, or “Momma” as you had her listed in your cell, and explaining to her your situation. I also bought myself some gas on your card. I gave your shoes to one of the homeless guys over by Vinnie Van Go Go’s, along with all of the cash in your wallet, then I threw the wallet itself in a dumpster. I called a bunch of phone sex numbers from your cell. They’ll be on your bill in case you’d like to know which ones. Alltel recently shut down the line, and I’ve only had the phone for a little over a day now, so I don’t know what’s going on with that. I hope they haven’t permanently cut off your service. I was about to make some threatening phone calls to the DA’s office with it. Oh well.
So, about your pants. I know that I was a little rough on you when you did this whole attempted mugging thing, so I’d like to make it up to you. I’m sure you’ve already washed your pants, so I’d like to help you out. I’d like to reimburse you for the detergent you used on the pants. What brand did you use, and was it liquid or powder? I’d also like to apologize for not killing you and instead making you walk back home humiliated. I’m hoping that you’ll reconsider your choice of path in life. Next time you might not be so lucky.
If you read this message, email me and we’ll do lunch and laundry. Peace!
– Alex
THANKS, 08. I loved that. It reminds me of the military sense of humor that I love so much. *BIG HUGS*
I thought you might like it.
Everyone here liked it too.
Any religion that stones women to death because they were raped, marries off 7 year old girls to 40 year old men, wants to kill people who insult their religion, will kill innocent people just because they are Americans…..well….that is not a religion….it is hatred…evil….and must not be tolerated in any form in America. Honor killings? They already happen here….and it must be stopped.
Someone please tell me the logic in stoning to death a rape victim? Yet the agressor gets a mere slap on the hands?
These MEN…yes MEN….make women cover themselves because why? Because the men cannot be trusted to look at the women?
Show me some religion in this.
TBROOKOVER
Just a short reply to what you wrote above taunting Islam for stoning an adulterer to death, pl note that the same punishment is mentioned in Bible also “The Bible- Deuteronomy chapter 22 verse 20-23″ , secondly rape victim is not stoned to death in Islam but the one who had committed this heinous crime is subjected to severe punishment including capital punishment of death. As per Islamic law a person who is married (male or female whoever is married) and have an extra marital affair i.e committs a sexual intercourse other than his wife/husband should be stoned to death, the same is mentioned in The Bible also.
THE BIBLE “DEUTERONOMY CHAPTER 22 VERSE 20-23″
22:20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: 22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Further more for correction of your record and information, according to non-biblical sources Joseph was almost 90 years old when he betrothed with Mary mother of Jesus. Virgin Mary was between 11-14 years of age. Virgin Mary also conceived Jesus between the same age of 11-14
“….it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age….” (Source) [2]
According to the “Oxford Dictionary Bible” commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was 12 years old when she became impregnated.
Comment by Salman Lakhani on February 10, 2009 2:21 am
TBROOKOVER
Just a short reply to what you wrote above taunting Islam for stoning an adulterer to death, pl note that the same punishment is mentioned in Bible also “The Bible- Deuteronomy chapter 22 verse 20-23″ , secondly rape victim is not stoned to death in Islam but the one who had committed this heinous crime is subjected to severe punishment including capital punishment of death. As per Islamic law a person who is married (male or female whoever is married) and have an extra marital affair i.e committs a sexual intercourse other than his wife/husband should be stoned to death, the same is mentioned in The Bible also.
Further more for correction of your record and information, according to non-biblical sources Joseph was almost 90 years old when he betrothed with Mary mother of Jesus. Virgin Mary was between 11-14 years of age. Virgin Mary also conceived Jesus between the same age of 11-14
“….it is possible that Mary gave birth to her Son when she was about thirteen or fourteen years of age….” (Source) [2]
According to the “Oxford Dictionary Bible” commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was 12 years old when she became impregnated.
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I find it amusing that you would actually try to compare the Quran to the Holy Scriptures. Especially considering it is completely obvious, someone has pointed these verses out to you. There has been no personal study by yourself.
You have no Idea the principals or the reasoning behind the Mosaic law. Or the covenant Jehovah made with Abraham the father of Israel.
You refer to the bible in terms of The Old Testament, and The New Testament, when in reality it is properly referred to as the Hebrew scriptures and the Greek scriptures according to the language they were written in.
And you use none biblical sources to further your argument.
As though the Creator would actually violate his own law, and transfer the life force of his only begotten son in heaven, into the womb of a child on earth.
According to the law Jehovah handed to Moses, a man wasn’t considered of age until he was 30, and for a woman it was 25. This was the acceptable marrying age. But there were exceptions made for the folly of sin. That is why Jesus started his ministry at the age of 30.
The Mosaic law was given to manifest sin. In other words to prove to the world they needed a savior. That people were imperfect.
It was also given to pave the way for Jehovah’s son. That is why God went into a covenant with Israel, and then later on with the Christians. But when Christ was nailed to the stake, and Crucified, the law was nailed with him, because he bore the sins for obedient imperfect mankind. The punishment of the law may be abolished, but the principles of the law still apply. For instance, if you promise to be a virgin and are not, there are consequences for lying. You still cannot commit adultery, or fornication, or murder, or steal from your neighbor.
And because the perfect sacrifice was made in Jesus, there was no further need of sacrifices of animals for sins. These animal sacrifices were foreshadowing the sacrifice of Christ.
So don’t even try to compare the absurd writings of a pedophile, and lunatic, to the writings of the 40 people, Jehovah choose to write his word down for the salvation of mankind.
The bible is based on principles, Muhammad had absolutely no concern for.
The fact it was written over 1500 years, by 40 different people, who could not possibly have been in collusion, and it does not contradict itself, (when studied in depth and meditated on), is a good argument it came from God.
So please, don’t try to compare the ramblings of a madman to the Bible. And you don’t have delve to deep into the Quran to realize that is all it is, that is of course if you have any intelligence.
to u all who r all speaking rubbish about beautiful islam…i wanna say u some thing…ISLAM religion of allah always doesn’t need even muslims for it to prevail and be a great beautifull path to follow..whatever u do or plan to stop growing islam in whatever way,remember the verse of the qur’an..ALLAH IS INDEED THE BEST PLANNER OF ALL…and your all plan and work against islam is sure will end in vain..may be you realised that….search for fastest growing religion in the world, the answer will be the ISLAM…i think u know that,now think about that all u have done is ended in vain ……you can refer bbc or cnn anything…so i advice u to just stop wasting your precious time in malligning islam….u cannot succeed in this….so live ur life and try to understand your religion atleast…and try to understand the ISLAM……
I also say that just dont judge a religion by the act of people..every community has blacksheep..i cant blame christianity cos of hitler killed thousands of jews in the name of christianity…there are people of good and bad in every community,
IF U WANT TO KNOW ABOUT ISLAM GO TO THE QUR”AN AND HADITH…may allah shows u all the right path…………
Hi every one I have read the top of this page hurts me a lot.
I am just wrinting to tell what I know.
every one should repsect all religions. Never try to put down any one.
If a Muslim,Jew,Indu or Christian do some think bad you cant insult or blame their religions because of them.
I my religions it is said respect all Men kind animals every think.
also said that all 4 religions are true.(check the similiarity)
In my religion we cant beat our mother sister wife or daughter not at all if people do then they are stupid they dont flolow the religion as it is.
I apologise for my engllsh I have been learning english from 2 years.
Get a clue. It’s a crusade. We will win. 2 bad4 Islam
Comment by Safeer on February 12, 2009 2:54 pm
Hi every one I have read the top of this page hurts me a lot.
I am just wrinting to tell what I know.
every one should repsect all religions. Never try to put down any one.
If a Muslim,Jew,Indu or Christian do some think bad you cant insult or blame their religions because of them.
I my religions it is said respect all Men kind animals every think.
also said that all 4 religions are true.(check the similiarity)
In my religion we cant beat our mother sister wife or daughter not at all if people do then they are stupid they dont flolow the religion as it is.
I apologise for my engllsh I have been learning english from 2 years.
============================================================
You are at the wrong website. We are not the politically correct crowd. We are the people you will not silence. So I suspect we are now the people number 1 on your list to silence or kill. We will not stop until you people are deported from our country. We understand perfectly that you are a seditious organization out to overthrow our government. You can not beat the U.S. military so you are trying to beat us by sedition. But unfortunately for you, we are a society of free thinkers and enough of us have already recognized you for what you truly are, our enemy. And now we are telling all our fellow Americans just exactly what and who you people all really all about.
And for those of you not convinced, here is a video showing what happens as Muslim numbers increase in western societies. http://sioe.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/what-islam-is-not/
Comment by ahamed on February 12, 2009 6:40 am
to u all who r all speaking rubbish about beautiful islam…i wanna say u some thing…ISLAM religion of allah always doesn’t need even muslims for it to prevail and be a great beautifull path to follow..whatever u do or plan to stop growing islam in whatever way,remember the verse of the qur’an..ALLAH IS INDEED THE BEST PLANNER OF ALL…and your all plan and work against islam is sure will end in vain..may be you realised that….search for fastest growing religion in the world, the answer will be the ISLAM…i think u know that,now think about that all u have done is ended in vain
=================================================================
[ to u all who r all speaking rubbish about beautiful islam…]
Lets take your rubbish apart piece by piece.
There is nothing beautiful about a group of people who behead, torture, hang, and rape other people simply because they don’t agree with you. Make women cover up because their men have no self control when it comes to sex. Tell women they are not on an equal intellectual level with men.
Just because pound for pound a man is superior in physical strength, doesn’t mean he is superior in intellectual strength. You people are a fool to believe that nonsense. We proven that wrong in America again and again. Some of the most major medical, technical, and literary advances in the modern world have been made by women. But I know you guys really hate that. Don’t you? You feel it makes you look like less than a man. Right? Get over it ! Real men here in America, are proud of our women.
[ ISLAM religion of allah always doesn’t need even muslims for it to prevail and be a great beautifull path to follow..whatever u do or plan to stop growing islam in whatever way,remember the verse of the qur’an..ALLAH IS INDEED THE BEST PLANNER OF ALL…and your all plan and work against islam is sure will end in vain..may be you realised that]
This part I love the best. Where is there any record that a god has intervened on behalf of the bloodthirsty Islamic faith? Where?
But then again, the people you hate the most, Israel or the Jews, had their god Jehovah intervene on their behalf several times. And it is not only recorded in the bible, but it is recorded in secular history. That’s probably why you really hate them so much is because they do have history with a real deity. Does Pharaoh of Egypt ring any bells? Or how about King Sennacherib of Assyria who lost 185,000 of his best troops to one angel, on a certain evening long ago.
[ fastest growing religion in the world, the answer will be the ISLAM…i think u know that,now think about that all u have done is ended in vain ]
Just because Islam is growing fast doesn’t mean it’s right. It also does not mean you are not our enemy. The Nazi’s grew very fast, and they were not our friends. And by the way, do you remember what happened to them? And Hitler just like you people took the cowards way out, he committed suicide. Contrary to what you may believe about most Americans, dying is easy, It’s living that is tough.
how come this place is full of mohammedan turds, it used to be a nice website
gsdfgs, I don’t mind having Muslims commenting here, it only gives more credence to what I’ve been posting.
this site is nothing more than a filth of the ignorance. You judge a whole nation based on one or two ignorance individuals. Palestine will rise again, What is happening is Gaza is proof that Jewish people did not lean nor will learn from what the German did to them. I guess Hitler died before his mission was completed whatever it was. who knows. just another messed up man. I could not help but to waste some time here…The people who visit this site, enjoy corrupting your mind, then blame other for when you do something wrong…jolly good job.
You see, Aladdin, it’s people like you that make the world hate Muslims/Islam. But don’t worry, there’s another Crusades coming your way. And this time we will finish the job.
08hayabusa
You seem to think I have no knowledge of Islam. Well, you are wrong. Yes, Islam does stone to death women who are raped….that is unless they can find four mail witnesses. Give me a damn break.
You just keep on writing, Buddy…..you justify every belief I have.
Juste to be clear I am trying to make you accepete my religion .
I don’t know who has answed me but your are juste being rasciste.
About your us military you watch to much movie nothink like that in real
in Afghanistan and Irak they have nothink no gun no even good cars but still you canot do any think even from 20 years of trying to take control .
Wacth whats going on in this world argument with me won’t change any think you are free to say and think.
If you have time watch som video about the NEW WORLD oder documentory or others.
Hi All,
Im a young guy of this race called mankind..
I love, care and feel to be truthful to myself and my parents, whom I believe to be God as they are the ones who nurtured me and gave life in this beautiful world.
What I have learnt from them, goes like this:
“Every man has two horses in him called Love and Hate, the victorious is the one who you feed the most.”
Life is much more than just religion and religious books.. Think out of the box or do not think at all.. Just live life and spread your wisdom and honour to a new life..
Thats my 2 cent story..
My sincere apologies if I may have offended anyone but life is too short to always think of fear and evil..
Mahatma Gandhiji Once said “Say No Evil, See No Evil nor Talk No Evil”..
I also added “Do no Evil” to this powerful phrase and have been using it in my life everyday..
I know people of different religion, varied races but when they realise that the differences are merely physical and not eternal, they feel blessed and start to ignore the differences…
HATE IN RETURN BRINGS HATE…
WHEREAS LOVE IN RETURN BRINGS LOVE… Just simple as that…
Try this just one day in your life and analyze the joys or sorrow of that day, maybe a year later you will still smile and say I HAVE NOT SINNED COMPLETELY..
TO ERR IS HUMAN NOT UNTIL U REALISE AND DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN..
WAKE-UP FOR GOOD OR DO NOT WAKE-UP AT ALL…
SPREAD LOVE IF YOU CAN BUT DO NOT SPREAD HATE AND FEAR…
Again these are my truest beliefs, if anyone is offended I sincerely apologise for the same…
Well as per the hate and fear shown above in other user comments.. that is fine once but just think twice before you try again.. It ain’t good for anyone, not even yourself..
FOLLOW PEACE AND STRENGTH OF LOVE, MY FELLOW CITIZENS OF WORLD..
btw..
FORGIVENESS ISNT THAT HARD TO EMBRACE, TRY IT ONCE IN YOUR LIFE..
Peace…
Abuse spans all races and religions. I have witnessed it, been exposed to it, and endured it myself. I was beaten and starved by my supposedly “Christian” foster parents when I refused to convert from Islam. I grew up with children in the south who were being molested by their relatives, and I hear just about every week when I am in Tennessee about some teacher sleeping with her underage student. It’s present in all groups of people, not just one. This is the truth. The barenaked truth. Accept it.
Discover Islam
The Status of Women in Islam
Islam honours women greatly. It honours women as mothers who must be respected, obeyed and treated with kindness. Pleasing one’s mother is regarded as part of pleasing Allaah. Islam tells us that Paradise lies at the mother’s feet, i.e. that the best way to reach Paradise is through one’s mother. And Islam forbids disobeying one’s mother or making her angry, even by saying a mild word of disrespect. The mother’s rights are greater than those of the father, and the duty to take care of her grows greater as the mother grows older and weaker. All of that is mentioned in many texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah.
For example, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And We have enjoined on man to be dutiful and kind to his parents” [al-Ahqaaf 46:15]
“And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour.
And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: ‘My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was young’” [al-Isra’ 17:23, 24]
Ibn Maajah (2781) narrated that Mu’aawiyah ibn Jaahimiah al-Sulami (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her.” Then I approached him from the other side and said: O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her.” Then I approached him from in front and said, O Messenger of Allaah, I want to go for jihad with you, seeking thereby the Face of Allaah and the Hereafter. He said, “Woe to you! Is your mother still alive?” I said, Yes. He said, “Go back and honour her (lit. stay by her feet), for there is Paradise.”
Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan Ibn Maajah. It was also narrated by al-Nasaa’i with the words: “Stay with her for Paradise is beneath her feet.”
Al-Bukhaari (5971) and Muslim (2548) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: A man came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, who is most deserving of my good company?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Your mother.” He said: “Then who?” He said: “Then your father.” And there are other texts which we do not have room to mention here.
One of the rights which Islam gives to the mother is that her son should spend on her if she needs that support, so long as he is able and can afford it. Hence for many centuries it was unheard of among the people of Islam for a mother to be left in an old-people’s home or for a son to kick her out of the house, or for her sons to refuse to spend on her, or for her to need to work in order to eat and drink if her sons were present.
Islam also honours women as wives. Islam urges the husband to treat his wife in a good and kind manner, and says that the wife has rights over the husband like his rights over her, except that he has a degree over her, because of his responsibility of spending and taking care of the family’s affairs. Islam states that the best of the Muslim men is the one who treats his wife in the best manner, and the man is forbidden to take his wife’s money without her consent. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “and live with them honourably” [al-Nisa’ 4:19]
“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise” [al-Baqarah 2:228]
And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I urge you to treat women well.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 331; Muslim, 1468.
And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 3895; Ibn Maajah, 1977; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.
And Islam honours women as daughters, and encourages us to raise them well and educate them. Islam states that raising daughters will bring a great reward. For example, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever takes care of two girls until they reach adulthood, he and I will come like this on the Day of Resurrection,” and he held his fingers together. Narrated by Muslim, 2631.
Ibn Maajah (3669) narrated that ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever has three daughters and is patient towards them, and feeds them, gives them to drink and clothes them from his riches, they will be a shield for him from the Fire on the Day of Resurrection.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.
Islam honours woman as sisters and as aunts. Islam enjoins upholding the ties of kinship and forbids severing those ties in many texts. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “O people! Spread (the greeting of) salaam, offer food (to the needy), uphold the ties of kinship, and pray at night when people are sleeping, and you will enter Paradise in peace.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 3251; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.
Al-Bukhaari (5988) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah, may He be exalted, said to the ties of kinship: ‘Whoever upholds you, I will support him, and whoever breaks you, I will cut him off.’”
All of these qualities may co-exist in a single woman: she may be a wife, a daughter, a mother, a sister, an aunt, so she may be honoured in all these ways.
To conclude: Islam raised the status of women, and made them equal with men in most rulings. So women, like men, are commanded to believe in Allaah and to worship Him. And women are made equal to men in terms of reward in the Hereafter. Women have the right to express themselves, to give sincere advice, to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and to call people to Allaah. Women have the right to own property, to buy and sell, to inherit, to give charity and to give gifts. It is not permissible for anyone to take a woman’s wealth without her consent. Women have the right to a decent life, without facing aggression or being wronged. Women have the right to be educated; in fact it is obligatory to teach them what they need to know about their religion.
Anyone who compares the rights of women in Islam with their situation during the Jaahiliyyah or in other civilizations will understand that what we are saying is true. In fact we are certain that women are given the greatest honour in Islam.
There is no need for us to mention the situation of women in Greek, Persian or Jewish society, but even Christian societies had a bad attitude towards women. The theologians even gathered at the Council of Macon to discuss whether woman was merely a body or a body with a soul. They thought it most likely that women did not have a soul that could be saved, and they made an exception only in the case of Mary (Maryam – peace be upon her).
The French held a conference in 586 CE to discuss whether women had souls or not, and if they had souls, were these souls animal or human? In the end, they decided that they were human! But they were created to serve men only.
During the time of Henry VIII, the English Parliament issued a decree forbidding women to read the New Testament because they were regarded as impure.
Until 1805, English law allowed a man to sell his wife, and set a wife’s price at six pennies.
In the modern age, women were kicked out of the house at the age of eighteen so that they could start working to earn a bite to eat. If a woman wanted to stay in the house, she had to pay her parents rent for her room and pay for her food and laundry.
See ‘Awdat al-Hijaab, 2/47-56.
How can this compare to Islam which enjoins honouring and kind treatment of women, and spending on them?
Secondly: With regard to the changes in these rights throughout the ages, the basic principles have not changed, but with regard to the application of these principles, there can be no doubt that during the golden age of Islam, the Muslims applied the sharee’ah of their Lord more, and the rulings of this sharee’ah include honouring one’s mother and treating one’s wife, daughter, sister and women in general in a kind manner. The weaker religious commitment grew, the more these rights were neglected, but until the Day of Resurrection there will continue to be a group who adheres to their religion and applies the sharee’ah of their Lord. These are the people who honour women the most and grant them their rights.
Despite the weakness of religious commitment among many Muslims nowadays, women still enjoy a high status, whether as daughters, wives or sisters, whilst we acknowledge that there are shortcomings, wrongdoing and neglect of women’s rights among some people, but each one will be answerable for himself.
You are an idiot. Islam is the most brutal cult in the world toward women. One day another Crusades will wipe all of you off the face of the earth.
I don’t even need to answer you but …..
Who are you to tell this I can’t insult Islam
DO YOU HAVE ANY BELEIVE? NO I am sure about da
coz I study all religion and theere is no religion where its said to behaive like you
Chirstian Muslim Jews Indu in all theyr is a message of peace to leav in RESPECT
No at all like YOU
The ultim goal of this live is PARADIS
Wha you it is wrong with you is juste called brain Controled you don’t depende on your own but on the media instead of our religions BOOKS.
You don’t even know about the try knowledge About this world.
But you can find out it is up to you.
If YOu wana find out about a Islam then Don’t look on the Muslim but the Religion it self.
Meanings of islam in Arabic to English in my own words.
Muslim= Some who beleive in GOD and hes Oders.
Look for more detals if you can even michael jackson he is convert to Islam when he study.
I don’t even need to answer you but …..
Who are you to tell this You can’t insult Islam
DO YOU HAVE ANY BELEIVE? NO I am sure about da
coz I study all religion and there is no religion where its said to behaive like you
Chirstian Muslim Jews Indu in all theyr is a message of peace to leav in RESPECT
No at all like YOU
The ultim goal of this live is PARADIS
Wha it is wrong with you its juste your brain is Controle you don’t depende on your own but on the media instead of our religions BOOKS.
You don’t even know about the tru knowledge About this world.
But you can find out it is up to you.
If YOu wana find out about a Islam then Don’t look on the Muslim but the Religion it self.
Meanings of islam in Arabic to English in my own words.
Muslim= Some one who beleive in GOD and hes Oders.
Look for more detals if you can even michael jackson he is convert to Islam when he study.
Sorry for my poor wrinting I am still learning English.
I second that that you are an idiot. There is nothing respecting or honoring towards women in Islam. It is brutal, vicious, humiliating, demeaning, degrading and very hurtful in everdy damn way. You know what you can do with your ’sharee’ah” law? I would tell you….but I don’t want to get booted off this bliog as a poster.
I intend to speak the truth about Islam to anyone and everyone. It is a radical, terror driven religion.
Comment by akhter on March 9, 2009 4:38 pm
During the time of Henry VIII, the English Parliament issued a decree forbidding women to read the New Testament because they were regarded as impure.
Until 1805, English law allowed a man to sell his wife, and set a wife’s price at six pennies.
In the modern age, women were kicked out of the house at the age of eighteen so that they could start working to earn a bite to eat. If a woman wanted to stay in the house, she had to pay her parents rent for her room and pay for her food and laundry.
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This is exactly what’s wrong with you people. You live in the past. Why do you always compare us to our history.
We had the good sense to correct our errors. Where the hell is your good sense?
Why do you keep supporting something that you understand is corrupt?
Otherwise you would not point to our history to support your cause.
It is not ISLAM
That is for Sure.
But THAT COMES FROM THE BIBLE
Exodus 21
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
And any one who thinks that HE READ QURAN AND Quran teach violence or mistreatment of WOMEN send your question to me at hifazat_e_ali@yahoo.com
Now Read Quran what it said about this topic
[004:023] Forbidden to you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your fathers’ sisters and your mothers’ sisters and brother’s daughters, and sister’s daughters, and your foster mothers that have given you suck, and your foster-sisters, and the mothers of your wives, and your step-daughters, who are your wards being born of your wives to whom you have gone in – but if you have not gone in unto them, there is no blame on you – and the wives of your sons that are from your loins; and it is forbidden to you to have two sisters together in marriage, except what has already passed; surely ALLAH is Most Forgiving Merciful
Ayath Clearly said that Man can not MARRY HIS DAUGHTER No matter Legal or not.
REad the TAFSIR for details.
This honorable Ayah is the Ayah that establishes the degrees of women relatives who are never eligible for one to marry, because of BLOOD relations, relations established by suckling or marriage. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, “(Allah said) I have prohibited for you seven types of relatives by blood and seven by marriage.” Ibn `Abbas then recited the Ayah,
So Blood Relation prohbit the Marriage. Isnt simple fact to understand.
Comment by Tammy on February 17, 2009 11:23 am
08hayabusa
You seem to think I have no knowledge of Islam. Well, you are wrong. Yes, Islam does stone to death women who are raped….that is unless they can find four mail witnesses. Give me a damn break.
You just keep on writing, Buddy…..you justify every belief I have.
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I don’t know what I said to offend you, but I apologize if i did. By reading your blog, you seem to be someone I can relate to.
It’s Muslims and left Liberals, and anyone else who hates America for that matter that I have a beef with.
And I certainly have a beef with The Usurper in Chief. It should apparent to all by now that his lack of Executive experience does matter.
Does anyone still think Sarah Palin was less qualified?
I’m just one of the tin hat wearers speaking out loud here.
Anyway I’m sorry if I offended you. I couldn’t find it, but I must have copied and pasted the wrong blog.
This is completely WRONG. There’s no way a father can marry/have sex with his daughter in Islam. Actually if he does, I assume he will be punished a horrified punishment
As I write this, a 9 year old girl has been denied by an official Saudie judge to have a divorce from an old man she has been married off to. Her mother has no say. Surely an Islamic/Peaceful/Women’s Rights state such as Saudie Arabia would not allow this since it is not accepted in Islam …
I don’t see any riots in the streets there for equality for this girl like I do for “death to jews”. Wake up and stop making excuses.
“BUT IF A CHRISTIAN RAPES A KID THEN IT MEANS CHRISTIANITY SUPPORTS IT” Only if a declared Christian government upholds the right to rape the child. Apples and oranges.
Like America did yesterday with all the anti-Obama, anti-sociaism protests, the world needs to protest en masse the Islamization of our freedom and liberty.
thats wrong !
It is unusual to me, that your theory of violence and bloodshed in the islamic religion is very strong and has an era of forte present in your blood. You must agree, that in this world, there are many people who are corrupt and may even deserve to die for what they’ve done. The people you are talking about, they may fit into this category, but you seem to imply that only Islamic humans are the ones who are corrupt. This is pure bullshit. Open your eyes and ears, hear and see, do you watch the news, read the paper? Do you not hear of cases concerning non-muslims?! They’re are so many people that are NOT islamic, and yet do horrible things, and some of these people are christian, or jewish, or buddhist. So is this was your saying?, that if a christian does something wrong its ok? That if an islamic person does something bad, than all islamics are bad?
Let me, state your theory right now, in the following lines.
If an islamic man rapes a young girl, than all islamic men are corrupt. That just because some crazy man does something stupid, than that means his religion is crazy itself?
You must know that everyone is different, if one muslim man believes harrassing a girl is ok, than another muslim man might hate the idea, and shudder at the thought of it.
So let me say this.(In correspondence to your own views)
If i find out that you, a christian, a jew or whatever your faith is, do something bad, for this instance rape a young girl, than i will make my own website, called barenakedchristianity, or judaism, and write of how all christians or jews are evil.
But guess what!? I won’t do this, because i know that just because you’re evil, doesnt mean the christian next door is, because i know myself, that he donates to charity and is a good honest man. And i respect him, and help him in his troubles.
So one last thing…
If u hate us muslims this much, than keep it to yourselves and your anti-muslim friends, because we don’t wanna waste our time reading your bullshit about muslims being evil.
Peace out, thanks to all the good hearted people who wrote as protest to this crazed and diluted man, who just does not understand.
Thank you very much,
Oops, me and my muslims friends forgot to donate to the christuan charity!
Hmm, that shows something eh?
I am an Indian and I appreciate your site very much. Thank you for your boldness to stand for the truth. You must love your country very much. It is very obvious to the whole world about islam’s terrorist intentions. I am surprised that the so called moslems who post their comments are not aware. These peoples’ minds are still behind the veil. Thank you for this beautiful site and its expose of the evil mohammed and his quran. I hope this site will enlighten the so called moslems who deny the facts we see daily today.
Thank you Aji. I appreciate your kind words and know that a majority of the Indian people feel as I do. Here’s a story that was one of the most read here when I posted it a few months ago: http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/a-hindu-man-explains-why-i-hate-islam/
Responding to Comment by Heloo on April 27, 2009: Words of advise to Heloo: GET REAL, DUDE! GET A LIFE! Do you honestly believe Hate Sites like these would get any traffic if they stumbled into ethical, impartial journalism? To be successful as a propaganda tool they have to create or exploit a conflict. The religious kind is most lucrative! And since Islam-Bashing is in vogue, why not jump on the bandwagon? They KNOW the actions of a few Muslims is not reflective of Islam, just as YOU KNOW the actions of a few Christians (including those running such Hate Sites) does not reflect the Spirit of Christianity. But it makes for an interesting visit for web surfers especially those turned on by ‘gory shit’ so they can go stroke off in the corner to a fellow human being butchered. Where else but on sites like these can one get a hold of snuff movies – for free – absent law enforcement scrutiny – thanks to Freedom of Expression! So save your breath, Dude. These sites are no real threat to Islam; they’re just out to make a buck off it. So what’s your problem, eh? A man’s got the right to make a living no matter how low he’s willing to stoop!
See, Mr. barenakedislam: I’m on your side after all
First of all, CC, I don’t make a dime off this site. And second, if it were just the actions of a very few bad guys and not a whole movement, the number of stories I could post would be very limited and repetitive. The gory stuff is definitely the most often viewed on this site, but judging by the vast number of other pages that are visited every day, people are seeing an all-encomassing vision of Islam that has nothing to do with severed heads, and everything to do with a political ideology that is like a virus, slowing infecting the whole world. I have many readers from overseas who recognize that their countries will be the first to fall, before ours does. And I reference those countries as an example of what will happen here as the Muslim population grows and government policies favor our former enemies. So yes, the Beheadings pull them in, but the stories about the real Islam are what keep them coming back.
Say BNI.
Take a close look at his avatar.
Isn’t that a terrorist holding an RPG? (rocket propelled grenade)
Yea, he’s our friend.
Good catch, Jim, I never looked that closely but I think you’re right. LOL
Bare Naked Islam i am a convert to islam (p..s Im 15) those are just extremist we have a good time you need to hang out with a few muslims my dads friends wife is christian and they like to have her around
WHAT ABOUT CHRISTIANITY LOOK AT ALL THE BAD POINTS ABOUT THAT. NONE OF YOU CHRISTIANS READ OR EVEN FOLLOW THE BIBLE.
I’ve alawys preffered humans to muslims. has anyone else here read the true background of the mythical and proven non-existant allah? – made up by the mass murdering serial rapist paedophile , mad dog mo-ham-mad to get support for his murderous expansionist goals. { actually he stole the notion from pagans}. Things like this really put these creatures into perspective.
Son of bitch
Did you ever noticed why Muslims became terrorist ever?
Son of bitch! keep it in your mind that It is the only religion which is growing fastest weather Sons of bitch like you basterds like or not
Finally Goto Hell If you dont like Islam
Or
Attempt suicide if you cant see us Growing
Fuck yoU once Again
Mastermind
Yasir, you are the reason why genocide is a good idea.
genocide is not uncommon in isreal , a victim of it themselves, and now taking it out on the those who welcomed them with open arms in their hour of need, shame on you isreal and you sad jewish person incharge of this racist website.
Responding to Comment by barenakedislam on May 10, 2009 11:17 am:
I stand corrected! I guess I was out of line insinuating about profiting from a ‘Hate Site’. Yes, you’re right about the gory stuff which makes many keep coming back for more (those with more pluck than I), though, I’d be damned if I’ll ever learn where the devil you get those videos from! But, don’t tell me, PLEASE! I’d like to maintain some element of sanity.
The web is abounding with wars over religion. Enter the Defenders of The Faithful! Their exchange I see quite commonly is devoid of any real objectivity. It is more in the vein of a subjective, emotion-ridden diatribe the purpose being not so much to inform/educate but to offend, violating just about every tenet of fair play and expectation of interpersonal decency (e.g., “Fuck you and the horse you rode in on”! “May you pop a hemorrhoid”! etc., etc. for lack of something more incisive to say!). Some of these ‘Hate Sites’ are so far gone, it is futile to reason with them or engage in a mature, intelligent discussion. Case in point: The Church of Scientology, The LDS crowd, etc. You can talk away ‘till you’re blue in the face but they won’t budge an inch from their linear thinking. Because, you see, their full-time job and instant purpose is to access free web coverage and monopolize discussions while their performance is being watched, evaluated, and applauded by fellow pea-brain, divinely enlightened entities from Outer Space! Typical of most ‘extremists’.
I don’t want to sound partial toward any particular religion per se; God knows ALL religions have more than their fair share of skeletons in their closet! It’s when these die hard ‘Defenders of The Faithful’ come off with their typical, self righteous ‘holier than thou’ line of BS, I offer my two bits worth for the underdog (whoever/whatever that may be at the time). I try to paint a truthful, real, and fair picture that, within my limited knowledge and experience, I’ve come to believe is morally, ethically, and spiritually solid. My opinions do not emanate from any rigid standards of personal mores; they are sincere, honest, yet open to influence – not by creative BS, but recognition of unadulterated truth that invites divine inspiration catalytic to change.
I have no doubt that you’ve witnessed some horrific acts by people professing to be Muslims; yet, their acts are tangential to the Laws of Islam. I’m just as sure the 50 million plus (and counting!) innocent victims of the Inquisition have painted a dark image of Christianity. Many Jewish people believe the sanctification of bigotry, sexual aberrancy, murder, dishonesty, etc. in Jewish holy books authored by the predisposed clergy, and current, indisputable evidence of Zionist actions to achieve world dominance, is not a truthful representation of the Laws of God delivered by Moses, and therefore alien from True Judaism. Remember Hinduism? The proponents of Kamasutra, Free Love, Tantric Sex, etc. personified by Gandhi’s pledge to nonviolence? Are the massacre of Muslims and Christians by the Hindu majority in 1948 India and as recently as the pogrom in Gujarat and onward a true reflection of teachings of Hinduism?
You can be assured there are other sites defaming Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, etc. even Atheism for the wickedness perpetrated by vermin claiming allegiance to whichever faith.
Y’know, barenakedislam: With the profusion of creative misinformation and lies garbed with the appearance of credibility empowering a sinister agenda heralded by ‘religion’, it’s a wonder that I’m hanging on to monotheism and a guiding system piloted by my conscience. The bottom line is, we all want the very same thing: To go to Heaven! But just look at what’s happening all around us: WHAT A FUCKED UP WAY WE CHOOSE TO GET THERE, EH?
Sorry for the lengthy philosophizing. You caught me drowning in monologue! Peace!
Take your raghead and shove it up your ass, akhter.
Thanks for your insight, CC. But I assure you I am not defaming Islam, simply because I have not created any of the stories here. Half of them come out of Islamic countries so if there is any defaming, it is done by Muslims themselves. I report, you decide, as they say.
Yasir, why are you so angry? Cannot you feel the love?
After viewing the initial image of the little girl with the burned legs for the first time, and then skimming through all the rhetoric here, can I just say – every picture tells a truthful story which cannot be denied. As a mother of daughters, I love them enough to die for them and it breaks my heart to think that the traditions of any system of belief would result in such horror. This ‘religion’ is defamed by no one but itself.
barenakedislam is a true hater. you must be jews.
Anonymous… Why do you equate the exposure of evil and injustice with hating? I will support anyone who seeks to bring these things to light and I will continue to work in my own community to this end. I can honestly say that I hate no one on this earth, but I hate systems of belief which bring about suffering! This ‘religion’ creates problems all over the world. Eg…A recent news report: “Experts sent to monitor North Dublin Muslim School…. child protection procedure deemed inadequate… money from Department of Education not accounted for…”
huh wtf all the above facts above are WRONG!!!!!!
in Islam u r not allowed to have sex wid ur daughter n neither are u allowed to marry them as the Quran gives a list of ppl u cannot marry eg:daughter,mother,aunt etc
sex is not permitable for any muslim untill he is married
another thing a girl cannot b married untill she reaches maturity or has her periods have started
no parent is fukin dumb nuf to marry their 7 year old child to a 40 year man.if it is done it is the ppls fault not Islams fault as it is against the Quran and Islam
get ur fukin points right before u fukin type anything because trust me i know the bible inside out n u wouldnt want me to mis quote it n use it to decieve ppl from christianity
we all should get toghether and work with peace not create differnces
peace
farhan, all those stories come out of Muslim countries. And some girls reach puberty at age 8 or 9, so I guess you think it’s OK to have sex with them? And why won’t the Saudi judge annul the marriage of the 8 year old girl with the 47 year old man? You are the one that needs to get your “fukin” points right.
Noob…you just remove the comments you can’t say anything about…you really have no life…watch this end up being removed
Farhan says
’sex is not permitable for any muslim untill he is married’
Do the Pakistani Muslims who are responsible for the seduction and grooming for prostitution of underage white girls in the North of England cities aware of this?
perhaps you should Google it. it was all over the papers, And no, it was not just a minority of colonizers involved in this disgusting practice by night-shirt wearing desert people,
barenakedislam
The Stories coming from Muslim Countries did not prove that Islam allow it.
don’t you ware of stories of priest and child rape case. will you on the basis of this stories said that Christianity allow it? outsource not.
same is for Islam. a Muslim do it doesn’t mean that Islam allow it.
and When Quran says it is not allowed how can you on the basis of acts of Muslims blame Islam.
It is just liket that
if a person did not stop on a red signal and people start saying that is fault of the LAW.
think on it with open mind not with a hate for Islam in you heart.
hey u non beleivers,,
jst dont mock at islam
m a muslim and m proud to be one.
on that day u will realli regret every singlw word u said bad about our religion..
m thankful to allah for sending me to this earth as a muslim..
may allah show u the right path
Hes the most merciful the most gracious.
Ameen!!
WOMEN BEING DEGRADED IN ISLAM! CHECK OUT SITE:::::
http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015618
sex is haram with ur daughter.according to islam even seeing to a grl twice is haram.before updating any comment regarding islam first u should know about islam.that is quran and hadith.
I am Jewish and I hate Jews now and hate all christians for beeing so narow minded,
and whats this hate for Islam, I agree on Davys words you should read about islam not lie, also you got allot of time in your hands to put up such a childish hatful website like this, I have some muslim friends and they are all good people, I might as well convert to Islam while they counter the hate to love!
Talk about saints and angels, most of the evil in the world are caused by us Jews and Christians, look, Movies that send out bad vibes and ideas, Games, Comic books, and the sex is just out there in the air..making more wepons, tricking half of the world to stop on making neuclear warheads while we produce more of them..we are the real devils and sinners, I say read Islam like I did and learn what it is, leave this bull aside and become more wiser, I found the light its Islam..
I mean common, Look at our relegion all tricks and lies, we jews are known as prophet killers, we asumed that we killed Jesus( yeah right ) and these lost christians they cant settle on one mind, think about it, the holy ghost, the father and the son..who is who? I mean..If the jews killed GOD!! whats making this world still keep going? I mean isnt god sopposed to be and entity that is so great and powerful? Listen to this, this is what let me convers, ” God is one, God has no children, no spouse, no partner” theos were words from the quran..this made me belive, whats this all about rapists and pedofiles? I mean our Priests are molesting our children for gods sake..all of them, even the pope..if our priests do that what makes us judge thoes who are not real muslims..we are blind you all are, also we are the most people who degrade women, everyday in New York we got rapes, murders, we also publish them in websites chiled porn for pete sake,should I mention INCESTS!! I mean get real people..
Fake relegions:
1- Hindu: whats this lake called purification lake where the dead swims, and Vishnu who sat on a cow and went to the heavens, and the rat festival..the devil has blinded these people.
2- Buddists: they worshipped DAVID BECKHAM!! what is the world is that?!
3- Jews: from how much we are confused we have Kabbala with our red wrists, Mason and our secret devious deeds, and many more sects and Branches about 24!
4- Christians: They are confused, they sometimes dont know what to belive thats why we consider them the weeker race, also protestant, sacred heart..etc.so many branches that may reach to 30 I guess..mormons are christians but lost their way I guess..!
I mean , I can’t belive how blind are we.. INo I mean seriously, 9/11..psshh..
get real, I live in NY i know all my jewish friends there, and they told me that there are more than 150 jewish officers there, and they so happen not to be there that day?
its a plot we JEWS did.. hahaha!! I mean did you checked out wingdings in your computer?try it.. u’ll get it ( Q33NY)
Q:is question who did this?
33: is the time 3:30 pm
and NY: its New York..
u’ll get the drift!its in your computer all along..
Self hating Jews like you should be a Muzzie.
If you are a Jew, I am Jesus Christ. Get off my website you Muslim pig.
Go away, Muzzie scumbag
Responding to Comments from 08hayabusa on May 10, 2009 11:04 pm and barenakedislam on May 11, 2009 1:32 am: I hate to resurrect a dead issue about my avatar; it DID accomplish the purpose intended. Please DO take a closer look at it and an even closer look at one’s prejudices. All turban heads are NOT terrorists; certainly not someone wearing GUCCI shades, GUCCI turban, and sporting a freakin’ industrial size Mont Blanc Pen which looks like a RPG to you! (Can anyone spell MYOPIA?) Whatever, Dudes! So long as the message is clear: Pen vs. Sword, etc.; one also being concealable! Furthermore, I never before admitted to being on anyone’s side but, for the record, I’m on the side of “Truth, Justice, and the American Way”! LMAO. But you gotta admit, the mowfaw does look BAD, eh? (Now where’s that freakin’ cape and those revealing leotards …?).
before you talk about islam go read your history about the crusaders. how they have killed many muslims in the name of jesus (so they say) but jesus have nothing to do with them. the christian themselves say that figthting is not allowed in their religion then who gave premission to the crusaders to fight. i don’t think is their religion i think ignorant people full of hate like BARENAKEDISLAM who allowed them to fight. also i think one thing i don’t understand about christians specially in united states that they like salaho adeen the muslim kalifa who freed jerusalem from the crusaders. i know why they like him because he made jerusalem a safe place to live in for all religion. but the thing that i don’t understand that how they like him and hate islam and islam is the religion that tought him how to rule that way.
people who are full of hate like BARENAKEDISLAM is taking advantage of muslims belief because he knows that muslims belief in christians and jews and we muslims have to respect them because they are “people of a book”. know answer this BARENAKEDISLAM if you are in your right mind why muslims do say bad things about prophet jesus, moses, david, and all the prophets from god may peace be upon them all. only you and the people full of hate talk about prophet mohammad may peace be upon him. another thing explain to me this if christians are the good people on this earth then why the have put prophet jesus (eesaa) may peace be upon him on the cross and killed him if that was true? if the jew were the people of god why they have killed the prophets and the massengers of god that have been send to them in the past? why is there are different copies of the bible and only one copy of the QURAN?
talking about women in islam. well women are more respected in islam than in any other religion. in the united states and in western society there are many women who are beaten by their husbands or by their BOYFRIENDS more than in the muslims society. the reason is that we have pride any honor and we respect that not like your society. for example, a woman had sex with so many men that she got pregnant and she don’t know who is the father. what a shame. also when you say that islam allows a man to have sex with his daughter there is a story that happened two months ago in the united states that one girls who was 22 was dating a man who was 45 and they were have sex together and when she have introduced him to her mother, her mother was shocked because that was the 22 years old girl father and that not all when the girl found out from that he was her father she said that still want to have sex with him and she want to have a kid from him. know do i think christianty allow this NO. also islam does not allow it either. this is an individual mistake and i don’t blame it on the religion.
BARENAKEDISLAM before you talk about other societies mistakes and wrong doing you should fix your society mistakes and wrong doing. you say islam allow terrorism NO. what do you call when a student take a gun to school or college and start shooting people was that act a peaceful act NO. i still don’t blame his action on his religion because christianty and islam and jew does not allow this. you said that you have read the quran then prove it bring some evidence from the quran and clearly allow muslims to use terror on people.
BY THE WAY AM A MUSLIM AND I BARE WITTNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD EXCEPT FOR ALLAH AND I BARE WITTNESS THAT MOHAMMAD IS HIS SERVANT AND HIS MASSENGER
LLI, Are you really a Muslim? Gee I never would have guessed. Thanks for all the laughs, you should try comedy.
You are brainwashed. Islam commands you to kill the infidel….tell me who IS the infidel?
Comment by longliveislam on July 25, 2009 8:10 pm
The Crusades 1095-1291
Since the time of Constantine, Christians had gone on pilgrimages to the Holy Land. Even though Moslems had ruled Jerusalem since 638, Christians were still allowed to visit the city. By the 11th century, however, the situation had changed. Just as the number and frequency of pilgrimages to Jerusalem was at new peaks, the Seljuk Turks took over control of Jerusalem and prevented pilgrimages.
Here’s a summary of Pope Urban II speech that led to the Crusades, which has been recorded differently in various sources:
“The noble race of Franks must come to the aid their fellow Christians in the East. The infidel Turks are advancing into the heart of Eastern Christendom; Christians are being oppressed and attacked; churches and holy places are being defiled. Jerusalem is groaning under the Saracen yoke. The Holy Sepulchre is in Moslem hands and has been turned into a mosque. Pilgrims are harassed and even prevented from access to the Holy Land.
You Muslims are just as responsible for starting the Crusades as the Pope was, by your typical intolerance of other faiths, namely in this case Christians, by desecrating the Christian Holy places and driving the Christians out.
But also this occurred before the creation of Democracies when the Church had considerable control over the State. Since the advent of Democratic Societies the Church has been relegated to simply a voice in our communities. Here in America we have a complete separation of church and state. The Church can no longer declare war by a misguided Pope or Pastor’s authorization.
But of even greater importance is the fact that the Bible does not promote war or killing, unlike the Quran. The Bible teaches to love your enemy and to wait on Jehovah to settle matters. That He will do the judging. But the Quran preaches, do kill the Christian, do kill the Jew, do kill the infidel. Also the Quran does not allow separation of church and state, hence Sharia Law.
So in closing, it is not hate being preached here at Bare Naked Islam, it is self preservation. We recognize that it is Islam’s goal to continue the Crusades until all infidels are dead or converted, and we will not keep quiet. And this time it is your aggression not ours. But do keep in mind Muslim, that America IS a Christian nation, contrary to what our Muslim President says, and we are 330,000,000 strong, and we are armed. And when you Muslims start your attack on our people, our Government will not be able to stop us until all of your ilk have surrendered or been killed. And we know where all of you and your Mosques are. We are watching you.
reply to 08hayabusa
first of all we muslims don’t destoy churchs actually we are allowed to pray inside the church because its aplace of worshipping god. second of all you guys keep saying that the quran command us to kill the christian and to kill the jews prove it. bring me clear statement from the quran that command us clearly to kill the christian and to kill the jews. also you haven’t answered my questions if you guys are true christians then why you have put prophet jesus may peace be upon him on the cross and killed him if that was true. and why the jews killed many prophets and messengers from god before. one more thing i like to say is that if islam command us to kill the christians and the jew then why when kalipha omar didn’t kill any christians when he spread islam in jerusalem.
if you go to jerusalem you well see the wells that the crusader use to behead the muslims in and if you ask anyone who live in that area they will tell you its called the wells of blood because so many muslims were killed in it that they were full of there blood.
also for your information islam is the fastest growing religion and we will win if you miss with us because god is on our side and he is stronger than all of your weapons.
Define the word infidel as stated in the Quran.
You know….I don’t really want to mess with you. Just take your Islamic rhetoric and get out of our country. Do you see us pushing Christianity down the throats of Muslims on their land? Take your beliefs and leave for Islamic land.
WE ARE A JUDEO CHRISTIAN NATION.
My interpretation….bye bye.
reply to 08hayabusa
first of all we muslims don’t destoy churchs actually we are allowed to pray inside the church because its aplace of worshipping god. second of all you guys keep saying that the quran command us to kill the christian and to kill the jews prove it. bring me clear statement from the quran that command us clearly to kill the christian and to kill the jews. also you haven’t answered my questions if you guys are true christians then why you have put prophet jesus may peace be upon him on the cross and killed him if that was true. and why the jews killed many prophets and messengers from god before. one more thing i like to say is that if islam command us to kill the christians and the jew then why when kalipha omar didn’t kill any christians when he spread islam in jerusalem.
if you go to jerusalem you well see the wells that the crusader use to behead the muslims in and if you ask anyone who live in that area they will tell you its called the wells of blood because so many muslims were killed in it that they were full of there blood.
also for your information islam is the fastest growing religion and we will win if you miss with us because god is on our side and he is stronger than all of your weapons.
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Go tell your lies to some kool-aid drinking Liberal American. I’m one of the Patriots. I don’t apologize for America. America has nothing to be ashamed of Muslim. The only reason you hate us is because of our economy and our military. You want to be number one, but guess what?, America stands in your way. All of the modern conveniences you use today including that computer you are now using were invented or made more efficiently right here in America. What have you contributed to the world Muslim. Oil, a resource made by God. That’s about it, isn’t it?
You say you don’t kill Christians or Jews. What did you do to Lebanon, formerly a Christian nation? What about all the Christian church burnings all over the world. Why the constant assault on Israel, the home of the Jews for 3500 years. Why did you kill mostly 3000 Christians in the World Trade Center? You wonder why Jesus was killed and why Prophets were killed? What world do you live in? You think just because people are religious, that , that makes them good men? Or that if they are religious leaders that, that makes them good men? What about all your Leaders? You Muslims claim to be so Pious. You people have killed more people in my lifetime than all the other religions combined.
So don’t even try to tell me what Islam is or isn’t. Patriots take the time to study their enemies. And I know you are America’s enemy.
But check out this website if you dare.
http://perfectlyhuman.multiply.com/video/item/8/What_Islam_is_Not.
They not only kill others of different religions, they kill their own.
you say we kill each other
i think hitler was christian and he killed millions of people. also WWI and WWII was mainly between christian countries what do u call that. and we are not looking to destroy the united states thats what u think because you are just full of hate. if you go and study history (ur enemy history) you should see that we destroyed the two biggest empires back in the days the persian empire and the roman empire.
and you say that we didn’t do anything that benefit the people in science way will
there are two kinds of numbers the roman numrol numbers and the second one is called the arabic numrol number and if you don’t beleive me you can go look it up yourself. and algebra was named after an arabic guy his name was gaber and everyone know math is science language so without us, scientist could not even talk.
Comment by longliveislam on July 28, 2009 11:05 am
you say we kill each other
i think hitler was christian and he killed millions of people. also WWI and WWII was mainly between christian countries what do u call that. and we are not looking to destroy the united states thats what u think because you are just full of hate. if you go and study history (ur enemy history) you should see that we destroyed the two biggest empires back in the days the persian empire and the roman empire.
and you say that we didn’t do anything that benefit the people in science way will
there are two kinds of numbers the roman numrol numbers and the second one is called the arabic numrol number and if you don’t beleive me you can go look it up yourself. and algebra was named after an arabic guy his name was gaber and everyone know math is science language so without us, scientist could not even talk.
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You missed the whole point. What does WWI and WWII have to do with Christian religious intolerance. Those wars were fought against madmen trying to dominate the world with oppression. And Christianity had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Muslims kill Christians and Jews because they are Christians and Jews. For no other reason.
And as far as you Muslims are not a threat to America and it is just my hate. Here is part of your earlier post.
also for your information islam is the fastest growing religion and we will win if you miss with us because god is on our side and he is stronger than all of your weapons.
Hitler did not fight a religious war. One can do bad thing…and it not be of a religious nature……well maybe not with Islam.
Hitler did not kill in the name of Allah….get the picture?
Exactly….Muslims kill Christians and Jews…just because they are Christian and Jews. Islam is hatred. None of that love thy neighbor stuff for you…no siree.
Michael Jackson – Mohammed Jackson – Islam Way
Michael Jackson Alais Michael Jackson Telling The Greatness of THE ALLAH, THE GREAT…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_DqNx8Aok8
(well, there is indeed one obvious and strong reason why any pedophile should love islam :
http://www.red-alerts.com/islamic-expansionism/shocker-known-pedophile-converts-to-islam/
http://www.islam-watch.org/AyeshaAhmed/Pedophilia-Islam-Allah-allowed-Prophet-Muhammad-Practised.htm )
Islamlover, exactly. http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/michael-jackson-died-a-muslim-the-perfect-religion-for-paedophiles/
when one christian start kill people by the million you christians say he was a mad man and he didnt kill them in the name of god. but when one muslim mad man kill people by thousands you guy start blaming it on islam that is clearly idiotic.
Which Christian killed people by the millions?
HITLER DID NOT KILL IN THE NAME OF GOD. Islam kills EVERYONE in the name of God.
Hitler was a madman…not a Christian.
Comment by longliveislam on July 30, 2009 10:55 am
when one christian start kill people by the million you christians say he was a mad man and he didnt kill them in the name of god. but when one muslim mad man kill people by thousands you guy start blaming it on islam that is clearly idiotic.
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Hitler did not kill in the name of a religion or kill in the name of God. He killed because of his lust for power and world domination.
Muslims kill in the name of Islam and in the name of Allah. They also kill in the name of their leaders as in Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
It is because they fucking scream it before they behead people. Radical Muslims do everything in the name of ALLAH. You need to get out from the rock that is sheltering you open your damn eyes. Clearly, you are either very sheltered…or an extreme idiot.
im not sheltered or an idiot i believe in what make sense which is the true religion islam
like i said when christian kills you guys blame it on that person only but when muslim kills you guys blame it on islam thats clearly idiotic. what do you say about the kkk in the united states they killed people in the name of god. jews kill the muslim palestinian in the name of god because they have a FALSE
claim that palestine is the promised land from god so that give them the right to it. george bush claim that god is on their side in iraq and afghanestan killing millions of muslims trying to make both countries peaceful countries but that is not the truth.
also if you go study the history of empirealism you find out that the christians countries (europe) were competing to take over the world saying that they are spreading christianaty in the name of god and that gave them the right to kill and fight and which countries they go and take over, mainly the muslims countries. there are no countries in the world that have not been occupied by a christian country before even the United States have been occupied by britian. also why did many europian moved to the new world from europe because they where executed by the hundreds from the church. did we muslims say that christianaty allowed them to do so NO. we knew the leaders of the churchs were bad. now who have killed more people in the name of god.
You really are a sick puppy. Blinded your faith of hatred. The Palenstinains will never be happy with any peace agreement.
Let me ask you this…how many Christians are FREE to open worship in Muslim countries? Not many. What if a Christian converts to Islam? No big deal right? What if a Muslim converts to Christianity? Tell me…..and tell the truth.
You seem to think Christians do everything…..it is our government. We have separtation of church and state…unlike Islam.
When American forces attacked Iraq and Afghanistan….AS THEY SHOULD HAVE…..it had nothing to do with Christianity. It has to do with human rights….freedom and justice…which Islam does not recognize.
Tammy you are sad brainwashed person,go and buy some sense!!
@longliveislam
“..i believe in what make sense which is the true religion islam..”
Nothing in islam makes sense.
It’s all rubbish.. All made up by the pedophile Muhammed..
Just reading texts like 9.29 and 4.34 in the qur’an makes me sick and angry at the same time. And then I think.. Go ahead.. Make my day..
Oh.. by the way.. Islam is no religion.. it’s a desease..
@Tammy
I wonder if the sick little puppy knows about hadith vol. 9 , book 84 no. 57.
If he does, he would probably acuse us all for taking it out of context, or we do not know ancient arabic language, which – according to him – is the nly language for muslims to read. Otherwise it would be the wrong interpretation.
You know.. lots of excuses..
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/084.sbt.html
Behave yourself, akhter, or you won’t be here long.
Akhter, just answer my question. What happens to a Muslim if they convert to Christianity?
Oh…and if you could buy sense…I suppose you would have some.
Just answer the question.
Comment by longliveislam on August 1, 2009 4:43 pm
im not sheltered or an idiot i believe in what make sense which is the true religion islam
like i said when christian kills you guys blame it on that person only but when muslim kills you guys blame it on islam thats clearly idiotic. what do you say about the kkk in the united states they killed people in the name of god. jews kill the muslim palestinian in the name of god because they have a FALSE
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When Christians kill people and we only blame it on the person, moron, it is because they did not kill in the name of any religion. And we do soundly condemn the KKK. Again you are a moron for even citing the KKK.
But here is what Islam does.
Van Gogh: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/theo_van_gogh/index.html
World Trade Center 1993: http://www.fbi.gov/page2/feb08/tradebom_022608.html
World Trade Center 2001: http://zombietime.com/wtc_9-13-2001/
US Embassy bombings 1998: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/newsfacts-sudanstrikes.html
Mumbai India massacre 2008:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/massacre-in-mumbai-1036875.html
And the lists goes on and on to the tune of 13700 attacks that are Islam confirmed. So take your propaganda elsewhere. You are wasting your time here. We know better. We know you are America’s greatest enemy.
So you fire at me regarding Christians,in Muslim countries,in the middle east there are over 16 million Coptic Christians who are a living testimony ,in Pakistan there are over 3 million Christians, Nigeria 50 years ago was 95% muslim now nearly 35%are Christians,nearly every Muslim country has a Christian population, the reason you and others are alive and well is also a proof that Muslims do not and can not go and kill unless for self defense. Name a Muslim country who in the last 50 years has invaded a Christian country,while you are guilty of killing, murdering , tourchering, raping millions of Muslims,by invading ,Iraq, Afganistan,Chachnia, Bosnia, Kasavo, Lebnon,Syria, and soon t be Iran.Hitler kills millions of Jews in Europe,and you the Christians empty your countries of Jews and dump them in Palistine, a muslim country for thousand of years, they the Muslims welcome them the Jews in their country as cousins and in turn they are kicked out by the jews with the help of Mighty USA,a brutal occupation for the last 68 years responsible thousands of deaths, and lastly i come from Pakistan,in my town Jhelum there are over 6 thousands Christians,even one of our family member has converted,and is living there as another proof that what you and this website and many like these are preaching nothing but hate , lies, and misquotes.
Comment by akhter on August 2, 2009 5:34 am
So you fire at me regarding Christians,in Muslim countries,in the middle east there are over 16 million Coptic Christians who are a living testimony ,in Pakistan there are over 3 million Christians, Nigeria 50 years ago was 95% muslim now nearly 35%are Christians,nearly every Muslim country has a Christian population, the reason you and others are alive and well is also a proof that Muslims do not and can not go and kill unless for self defense. Name a Muslim country who in the last 50 years has invaded a Christian country,while you are guilty of killing, murdering , tourchering, raping millions of Muslims,by invading ,Iraq, Afganistan,Chachnia, Bosnia, Kasavo, Lebnon,Syria, and soon t be Iran.Hitler kills millions of Jews in Europe,and you the Christians empty your countries of Jews and dump them in Palistine, a muslim country for thousand of years,
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We are not preaching hate, but self preservation, while you on the other hand are trying to preach justification. The only reason you have not invaded a Christian country in the last 50 years is simple, you can not stand up to the technology of the weapons. So now you invade in the form of immigration and kill the Christians and Jews and run the rest off. Lebanon is a perfect example. It was a Christian nation with a Constitution guaranteeing that faith supremacy. So what happen? The Muslims moved in, were not happy being ruled by Christians, started a civil war, destroyed the pearl of the middle east, killed off most of the Christians, got rid of the Constitution, and set up a dictator.
And as far as the Jews go. They have lived in Israel ever since Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt some 3500 years ago. And Christian nations don’t dump certain peoples out of their countries. The Jews went to Israel of their own free will. But It will get to the point where we are going to dump Muslims out of our countries. Islam and Democracy cannot peacefully co-exist, as you Muslims have demonstrated all over the world. Everywhere you Muslims go, destruction and mayhem follow.
So Muslim, we see what your scheme is, and it is as old as time itself, divide and conquer. So you are wasting your time here with your propaganda. We know what your goal is and we will not be silenced or propagated.
http://perfectlyhuman.multiply.com/video/item/8/What_Islam_is_Not.
Akhter, answer my question. What happens to a Muslim who converts to Christianity?
You know..I have a few more questions….
What happens to a Muslim caught stealing?
What happens to a Muslim caught having sex outside of marriage?
What happens to a Muslim who is caught alone with a person of the opposite sex..even if they did not engage in anything immoral?
In what circumstanes would honor killing be allowed?
Help me out, here, Akhter.
One more, Akhter…what happens if a Christian gives a Muslim a Bible?
i will answer your questions tammy
if a muslim get caught stealing their hand will be cut off so he can be and example to not to steal
if a muslim get caught having sex outside of marriage if he is married he or she will get stoned to death thats to keep people from not cheating their spouse which could lead to divorce which destroy a family and if not married will be whipped 100 times the reason for that is to protect people from sexual diseases and for the women to know who she got pregnant from unlike the american where there are children do know who is their fathers because their mothers had sex with too many men that she dont know who got her pregnant.
if a muslim got caught alone with a person of the opposite sex even if they did not engage in anything immoral if they were talking about school or discussing anything about normal life nothing happen to them but if they were talking about sex or getting in a relationship they should be prisoned in their homes until they learn not to do it again without anyone beating them up
honor killing would be allowed if you catch your sister, mother, daughter, or wife doing any sexual activity with a man.
nothing will happen if a christian gives a muslim a bible because we muslims believe in the bible and i have read the bible myself.
all these answers are what our religion islam taught us but any person abuse these laws he or she are not true muslims and they will get punished if not in this life in the afterlife.
if a muslim convert to christianaty well every person choose their own religion and like Akhter said there are many christian that are living peacfully with muslims in muslims countries and i personally attend a christians school for 4 years back in my home land and they did not have the hate you guys showing on this web. and my best two friends are christians
reply to 08hayabusa
well we know your intention to destroy islam
two words keep trying islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world and we dont spend billions of dollars trying to spread unlike christians
reply to Pinstripe
why dont you go and find you a WALL and knock yourself out praying for god to knock some sense in you head
reply to 08hayabusa
well the jews claim that palestine is the promised land from god to the children of ibrahaim peace be upon him and we arab are also children of ibrahaim peace be upon him
Psalms 23 ..Yea though I walk through the valley, I will fear no evil.. Bhagavad Gita Ch12 ” who has their faith in me I love.” Christ- Love thine enemy”. Buddha- “Deeds determine destiny.” Sorry, no quote from islam as it doesn’t compare to normal religious thought, seeing as it just a cult of death, misogyny, zomboid-schizoid-alienation, mutilation and mayhem alone.
Well funny enough it happened to me while minding my shop , an Anglican Christian started preaching to me,and was eager to pass a Bible to me free of charge, i did expect his kind offer,and told him to keep in touch,every time he came back i posed a question to him saying i can prove it to be wrong from his own Bible, as you being a Christian would not except what the last testament the quran says. This went on for a while and then he demanded a copy of Quran,the mother of all the books, the most positive and the final revelation of God almighty given to prophet Mohammad . He now is known as Mohammad Illyas , Tammy you need to get one you owe it to your self .
Comment by longliveislam on August 2, 2009 4:15 pm
reply to 08hayabusa
well we know your intention to destroy islam
two words keep trying islam is still the fastest growing religion in the world and we dont spend billions of dollars trying to spread unlike christians
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I could care less about destroying Islam. But I will not let Islam destroy America. The only thing I care about is driving you and your butchery out of America. You seem to like to brag about it being the fastest growing religion. That’s only because people either convert or die. We see your handy work all over the world. And one day the world will stand up in one voice and destroy Islam because of the barbaric cult that it truly is. Just like the reformers of Christiandom did when the leaders had turned it into barbaric inquisitions and it became something the Bible did not teach. And to make sure unholy men never got into power again at the churches again, we created this country with a separation of church and state. Islam is still stuck in the 17th century, but soon the world will help all of you to get your seventy virgins. Have a nice day Muslim.
Comment by longliveislam on August 2, 2009 4:31 pm
reply to 08hayabusa
well the jews claim that palestine is the promised land from god to the children of ibrahaim peace be upon him and we arab are also children of ibrahaim peace be upon him.
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What’s your point? Instead of talking about peace, why don’t you just live it? Quit blowing Israel up. They have never attacked YOU except in self defense. You Muslims started a war 70 years ago and have kept it going to this day. For what? And you keep blaming the Jews for the bloodshed. You need to look in the mirror and take a real hard look at yourselves and Islam.
“longleeveislam’..and ..What exactly is your point ? Hmm? aye ?..what have you been smoking ?
I was amazed that a muslim knew the taste of pork ! I gave him a hotdog which as far as I knew was ‘beef’ – I guess the word Ballpark triggered a ‘b’ for beef in my head and so in error handed him a hotdog of pork. He ate the phukkin lot mind, before he questioned the flavour variant, what with fakkin onions and all !..”This eez porrrk !” he decried. “So fukkin what ! you ate the frikkin thing with the zeal of 3rd world-starvette posing for Oxfam. “I vill soo yoo ! ” it said. “you won’t get a penny from me b’cos all I have is a penny and I need that to scratch my arse with, you porky islamic devil,” I shouted. He brought several friends back, armed with staves and pitchforks. But, he hadn’t reckoned that my katana was on hand, and that I trained with Keinosuke Kyoshi in southern Japan and held a 8th dan in Iaido, a sixth dan in Kendo. Surrounded, but with my trusty katana in hands, I slashed the pitchforks to atoms, tines stabbed at me from the left and right north and south..In a flash of katana silver rotablades, the enemies’ limbs and heads lay in the street, my keen skills ensuring silence from the dead. This, witnessed by a Hollywood movie director, I was signed up to make movies with Jackie Chan..Howzat for 100% BS !!..(( sometimes ya gotta have a sense of humor..Something muslims don’t have. Grand Kafir of Infidelistan.
Drew, when were you in Japan? I lived there for 2 years. Nihongo dekimasu ka?
Nope. SE Asia. Hold Yudansha’s in Okinawan M/arts.
Ah so, very good.
you guys keep talking about how jesus peace be upon him taught us how to love our enemies but i dont see you guys FOLLOWING IT!
reply to 08hayabusa
ok im going to come over your house and take half of it forcefully will you welling to live with me peacefully answer this.
also you only talk about what we do to isrealis why dont you take a look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo59c7zU
if you notice in the video who was protecting those two women
after watching the video who is the bad guy
Jesus never said we had to agree with you. Furthermore…your actions on here are not totally admirable. How would Allah feel about that?
Jesus instructed us to love our enemies, but he did not instruct us to allow ourselves to be cannon fodder.
(Matthew 10:16-17) 16 “Look! I am sending YOU forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. 17 Be on YOUR guard against men; . . .
reply to 08hayabusa
what is not admirable in the video?
What is admirable in this video.
http://perfectlyhuman.multiply.com/video/item/8/What_Islam_is_Not.
This is what Islam is and we both know it.
longliveYusufIslam or is it Cat Stevens ?..both nuts. I’ve not read any quotes from muslims that say ‘love thine enemies’. The koran , a book for koriminals, is all about utter hatred. Not only that, it breeds and brainwashes muslims into violence, irrationality, brutality, cruelty on a vast scale, and outright insanity.
Save your breath , you people they don’t know the truth when it hits them in the face. Its a cult , santanic and you know and I know they at the end will judge to hell. Garanteed,. The Bible says so, Satan and his followers will be bound . and thrown into HELL.Yea, Praise God, cause no point arrguing with a block head. They are not worth high blood pressure.
Sad, isn’t it? I am so happy to have know the truth in my life…so happy to have been born free where I can choose my faith.
Sadly, if you are born to a muslim family….you are muslim and if you convert….you die. Freedom was given to us by God. Not people.
And ISLAMObama is doing his best to take it all away from us. He needs to be removed from office and fast, he’s a total fraud.
I cannot disagree with you there. I see very ugly things in our future. Very scary, ugly things.
Then you see things like this…and you want to believe it is true…..
http://www.examiner.com/x-13139-DC-Muslim-Examiner~y2009m8d4-American-Muslims-condemn-violence-against-Pakistani-Christians
Don’t fall for it, Tammy, ISNA is a very pro-terrorist group, just like CAIR. They may say the PC thing once in awhile but their actions speak louder.
CAIR..another “insider” job, working inside US politics so as to head off, what we infidels don’t get too aware of, so that the islmonazis can make their sick, greedy, grab-it-all gains. Gains they don’t have back in their own “gawntrees” ( countries). Back to Nazism. The dirty stinking commie-Nazi mentality, out of Germany, and into Ukranian stinkers, and Latvian bastards and Polish sub-humans and other gross nazi sympathisers of the WW-2 ..I have to reiterate..what a sick bunch of fukking queer foreign mentality you had and likely still have..The atrocities you nazi-heads committed, were beyond the ability of civil humane heads. The photo’s out of that era, show a twisted sadism of the most perverse type not-imaginable in a real Humane-beings mind. What you fukking queer batsrds did then needs to be raised very often, and all of you put to the gallows who subscribed to these heinous atrocities, the shame of man. German, Ukranian, Polis, Latvian and other assorted murederous queer foreign mentalities, of the islmic ilk..needs to dragged to justice and dispatched rom the realm odf humanity forever. I won’t even begin to describe the mercenary things you did..it is too sick to reacount, you vile fqueer foreign bastards Ukranian turncoats, Czechs, Hungarian nazis..all of you, and you know who you are…evil bstds. May atomise.
I knew it had to be too good to be true,
Hi barenakedislam,
you are really doing a great job… thumbs up !!
The way you phrase your postings… simply rocks…
Ignore the comments of those usual idiots (muslims).
They are not blind to the truth, they know everything but still they do this ,,, believing it pleases Allah (heaven pimp) and Muhammad ( my peace taken away by him) and gets them a place in heaven. They cant help it. They are brainwashed since the day they were born. They make this world a living hell for their greed for heaven.
In the beginning I was planning a site to mock Islam but after I stumbled upon barenakedislam came to know that its not necessary … and only thing required is to make more people aware of this site on which they ll get to know the true face of Islam and its real threat to the world.
“ISLAM is like cancer kill it before it kills you”
long live barenakedislam …
Thanks AMR! I appreciate your kind words.
Mohammed, PISS be upon him and his grave.
KILL ALL DIRTY MUSLIMS.
“Hatred is not overcome by hatred. Hatred is only overcome by non-hatred.” ( Gautama the Buddha.” “Love thine enemies” Christ. “Do unto others that which you would have done to you,” Confucius. “Harm no living being, love thine enemies as thy friends”. Krishna. “Smite the infidels on their necks with your swords.” madman Mohammed, piss be upon him and his grave.
Author: longliveislam
Comment:
“you guys keep talking about how jesus peace be upon him taught us how to love our enemies but i dont see you guys FOLLOWING IT! ”
Fair enough. The rules religions put upon people are either so vague as to be almost meaningless or are strict but seem tantalizingly within reach of obeying. Jesus was different. He emphasized rules that would lead people to lament their poor, even hopeless ability to obey them while at the same time set up as examples of righteousness persons who came to that conclusion. This is most clearly seen in this exemplary verse:
9 And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves
that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the
other a tax collector.
11 “The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank
You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or
even like this tax collector.
12 ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’
13 “But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even
unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast,
saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’
14 “I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the
other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles
himself will be exalted.”
– Luke 18:9-14
Certainly Christians fail to love their enemies and should be humbled by that. But tell me, if in failing that way they only resort to behavior you consider justified anyway (hating the enemy,) how can that possibly grieve you? Haven’t they by that only fallen to a position you believe is more sensible?
As for your video, the moral of the story seems to be anyone in a battle zone is vulnerable to maiming and death, especially when hovering around a target instead of taking shelter. The first strike of it very likely won’t be the last. That said, a bloody casualty — on whatever side — is gut-wrenching. You provide your’s and the Israelis have their’s to provide as well, as if anyone really needs grim reminders. However, your video may not have the impact you expect. If the Israelis do have such overwhelming power to inflict so much suffering, it might just occur to a viewer that there is something odd in not considering the option of surrender under such circumstances. One last thing. If groups like Hezbollah don’t like the idea of children being harmed, they might make the point best by not having children in battle attire marching in their military parades and by striving to not kill their enemy’s children. You know, set an example.
If I may, let me return to some long past issues raised, mostly by Salman. (Just look for the longest posts to find them.) At some point debunking the endless maze of subterfuge becomes a fool’s errand, but some demonstration that it is indeed subterfuge is worth a little bother. Not much for the sake of the gullible who are so easily persuaded of anything that resorting to their prejudices becomes the most sensible guide for them, but rather for the skeptic. Fortunately, much of it is so supercilious and bombastic that a skeptic will see it for what it is anyway, but some of it rather more cunning. You’ll see what I mean if you read on.
Rather than copying from other articles as Salman does, let me provide links to them instead:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T72TADKA67TG4U459
Note: Comments by Sound Doc.
The comments by BMZ are instructive as well; for instance he cites Bible passages he claims “clearly” show repentance without also atonement forgives every sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Later he adds that Jesus committed a “grave sin” by not casting the first stone at the adulterous woman. Since Jesus was without sin, Jesus was actually saying it was his place to take the lead in stoning her, but then he failed to carry out that duty, and thus, gravely sinned.
Some interpretations are just too absurd to reckon anyone could seriously proffer them and that is certainly an example. Another is Salman’s absurd interpretation of the Song of Songs. He would have us believe that at chapter five verse two where it says: “I sleep but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled …” that means his love is his biological sister. Why then isn’t the word “dove” forced to be taken just as literally? Unless the beloved is also a dove (and both of them doves that speak!) this then could indicate bestiality just as well as indicating incest by precisely the same absurd reasoning.
http://answer-islam.org/who_really_lied.html
Note especially: #5 & # 6.
#2 & #3 provide a segue from my last paragraph. As “porn” refers to the GRAPHIC, or more broadly, the explicit description of sexuality, body parts in particular, the Muslim who accuses the Bible of it is pitching stones from a glass house which is his own Koran. There is sex, even very perverted sex, in the Bible to be sure, but always told euphemistically instead of in explicitly lewd terms. There is no hint of titillation in the Bible, as the promise of 70 virgins for every deserving man in the afterlife for example.
http://www.answer-islam.org/fathers_rape.html
More of same.
http://forum.bismikaallahuma.org/christianity/817-fathers-sticking-their-fingers-into-their-daughters-vaginas.html
Note: Brief comments by Jayman & Dr. NO. The rest just shows that others cut-n-paste from the same articles as Salman does.
http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/0522.htm
Scroll down to section B and peruse the commentary.
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Bible-Studies-1654/Virginity-2.htm
More of same to peruse.
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jwst/4q159.htm
Note: Mr. Tigay is referenced by Osama Abdallah.
“In the opinion of modern medical practitioners, there is no absolutely certain way to prove that a recent act of coitus was not a girl’s first. Nevertheless, examination of the bride is a far more reliable test than examining a cloth.”
According to his “modern medical practitioners” he ought to have said “less unreliable” as neither is actually reliable for one to be more reliable than the other, much less FAR more reliable. In any case, there is no justification for presuming ancient people would’ve had a clue about which was most unreliable and as for the Bible, not a word can be found indicating any handling of the female pubic region. Circumcision of course does indicate it for males.
http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/legal-religious-status-of-virgin
Rabbinical traditions. May I just remark, opinionatedly, that if one can derive from the Biblical prohibition of boiling a kid in its mother’s milk, a meaning to never serve cheese from a plate that has been used to serve meat, then one might also make of these efforts to “strain out a gnat” as being based upon Deuteronomy 22.
However from the text itself, nothing of the kind comes forth.
http://disevangelists.blogspot.com/2009/02/atheist-devotional-reflections-on-pre.html
“The quality of this evidence must be openly questioned. The hymen is a poor attestation to the virginity of a woman. The hymen does not always create a full obstruction and may even remain intact after years of intercourse. Additionally, the hymen will often break or tear from non-sexually related activities. Hence, the hymen is not a reliable barometer of sexual activity. Unfortunate for the Israelite bride, her life may depend on the integrity of her hymen—a membrane which she may have no control over. The admissibility of the “tokens of virginity” in this case represents a break from the general Pentateuchal requirement for direct witnesses and places many a potentially innocent bride at risk with no risk to any potential male accomplice.”
The most perfectly tell-tale sign that a woman is not a virgin is a child in her belly, but in one case even that was not reliable evidence. Unfair as having women so much more troubled at hiding the evidence of their sexuality may be, who can argue with nature? I suppose in the interest of equality if women are subjected to “examination” men ought to be as well, but in search of what? The bodily evidence in a woman is surely unreliable, but that evidence in a man is even much harder to come by at all. Even his offspring he can claim look like him because they are his brother’s or a cousin’s. Before DNA testing, just about the only physical proof that a man has had sexual relations was STD’s — rather much a greater liability than a torn hymen I’d imagine.
http://www.tektonics.org/af/brideslander.html (FYI: ANE = Ancient Near East.)
“This is reflective of an error we have seen many times: Deuteronomy is not a literal handbook, but is really intended to be didactic — a book of case law.”
That article presents a perspective that may clarify much. For example, it would explain why when Jesus famously said about the adulterous woman: “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone,” the men did not insist on stoning her anyway because the law calls for it, but instead left her unharmed. The notion that the Jews were cruel taskmasters in keeping the letter-of-the-law no matter what and cared not a wit about the spirit of it, is quite unfair to them. If they really were that strict, the “Sabbath-breaker” Jesus would not have found a single Jew to follow him, and yet, not counting the occasional exception, it was ONLY Jews who followed him while he was here on earth. A massive throng of them greeted him shouting praises when he entered Jerusalem on a donkey.
Another “extenuating circumstances” argument:
http://reactor-core.org/~djw/myblog/archives/2006/05/17/T21_14_41/
That “Biblically sex for pay is fine” is a rather misleading statement to say the least, but that the ANE had just such a value-system and that ancient Israel was of that same environment, is not to be doubted. I will not vouch for the argument made in the article, in fact I’m skeptical of it. However, I offer it to show that when cultural context is taken into account, entirely different impressions can arise. Not ones more correct than without it necessarily, but very different ones regardless.
Now let’s review:
Whether some folks have ever used such things as “digital” examinations to try to ascertain virginity is entirely moot regarding the Bible. There’s simply no reference to it at all in the Bible.
Regarding Deut. 22, the word “proof” is often used in commenting on it, but the word isn’t in the text. There are two salient words instead: “tokens” and “evidence”.
By common sense alone anyone may surmise that a stained cloth could be so easily forged as to be ridiculous as “proof”. So how could it be evidence? Again, a common sense guess suggests it would need some kind of, as it were, ‘notarization’ from the wedded couple. This would explain the word “tokens” –plural. There would be more than one. The groom would presumably have offered some testimony (a statement that, yes, this was a token he gave his father-in-law,) probably written but in some way sealing his bond and likely before witnesses, to verify that the token counted as evidence. We should presume this was carried out strictly in many cases but not always. We just can’t know how often a groom and his parents-in-law would agree to go through the motions of providing something that could pass for “tokens” more to satisfy the custom than to protect each other legally. Ideally of course, all involved would be trustworthy and faithful and in fact the conflict described in Deut.22 could not possible ever arise if all obeyed the law which says “Thou shalt not bear false witness”. Does the Bible say that weddings could not be consummated without such tokens? The passage presupposes the tokens but that means the law must call for them elsewhere in the Torah if indeed it is law not custom, but where? If any reader knows please tell me because I can’t find it.
http://roshhashanah.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=963
That brief article puts the whole matter to rest neatly. If the rabbi is right that this is not a Jewish custom and never has been, then we may safely say that neither is it in the law. In common language, we are barking up the wrong tree by even trying to make sense of having a stained cloth if that isn’t even the meaning in the passage in the first place.
So what about the law? What’s it all about? Some opinions:
http://www.abcog.org/lesson6.htm
“None of this means that any of these laws have been abrogated. However, some of them have no discernable or meaningful application outside of the culture in which they were given. The law requiring fringes on garments probably made a statement in that culture, but the meaning of the statement has been lost. Scholars may someday tell us what it meant. When that happens, we probably will still not need to put fringes on a garment, but we will understand an underlying principle that applies nonetheless.”
That from a Christian expositor, but did not the revered rabbi Hillel say that the law is contained concisely in the statement: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Likewise Jesus said it was to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and your neighbor as yourself, in his typical fashion of setting the bar awfully high if thought about deeply. The law only becomes harder when put simply and it is by no means easy when not.
Moving on now.
Regarding Numbers 31:18, nothing in the passages (nor anywhere else in the Bible,) tells how the “women children that have not known a man by lying with him” were told apart from those that had, but two things we can say confidently: 1) The Midianites having ANY “women children” (young girls,) who HAD known men by lying with them, doesn’t speak very highly of those Midianites. 2) Salman’s tale of how they MUST have been told apart is absurdly baseless.
I’d like to suppose that ALL those Midianite “women children” were spared and adding to their description that they had not known men by lying with them was only to indicate why. However, that very well could credit those Midianites with more than they deserve. If there were indeed little Midianite girls who had sex with men, how were they identified? The Bible doesn’t say but there’s one distinct possibility that comes to mind: The Midianites themselves may have marked them — for example with tattoos or piercing. Conversely, the little girls who had not been defiled could’ve been identified by something that certified their status — for example jewelry; a ring or necklace, that no one but they were permitted to have. (This stands to reason given the ritualistic nature of their sexual practices.) The point is, the Midianites may well have already kept these two classes of little girls separated apart from each other according to their own customs. This would go as well for the grown women who were likewise chaste, however given the reason behind it all, it’s fair to presume such women would be discoverable because they would be the only ones who hadn’t participated in the seduction of the Israelite men. The rest who had, witnesses could identify.
What I found particularly nonsensical in Salman’s claims (actually they’re not his but ones he’s gleaned from others verbatim,) is the notion that such troubling passages from the Bible are indications of corruption of it through revision. More sensibly it would indicate precisely the opposite. Why would anyone make a revision that is more troublesome than the original? Likewise, why else would anyone keep a troublesome passage in, other than from a sense of obligation to keep it in no matter what? There is the unimaginably bizarre sexual angle and of course the sparing few prisoners including few of the women and children. Revisionists would surely have plenty of motivation to remove such episodes. Indeed, there is no shortage of episodes recorded in the Bible that are regrettable affairs hardly flattering of Israel. In fact, failure is a recurring theme. Revising things to ‘whitewash’ that would make sense. Revisions that would’ve added it do not.
On the topic of corruption of the Bible versus the Koran, here are writings that put that in perspective. I urge you Muslim readers to take note especially:
http://bibleprobe.com/corruptedquran.htm
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2009/01/quran-vs-bible-ex-muslims-comparison-of.html
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/islam_reviewed_contents.htm Chapters 4 through 8.
And why does Salman need Numbers chapter 31 to be a corrupted text? Because according to the text Moses gave the command. Moses is supposedly an honored prophet in Islam, but if the Muslim wants to say what Moses ordered in this passage was uh, “distasteful” … well, you see the problem I’m sure. The solution is to have it not be anything Moses really did but rather what nasty Jews or Christians invented (presumably to justify their own vile behavior.) Is there a way to reconcile things without resorting to that solution? Not as simply nor conveniently I’m afraid, but is the truth always simple and convenient? We’ve already established that a “digital examination” being ordered or taking place is entirely specious, but what of the killing of prisoners, including women and children?
Here is a quite thoughtfully extensive treatment of the matter:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/midian.html
Here’s a much shorter version, but the best part of it is the links at the end under “Other Responses” which are not short (Sorry, but there’s just no brief way to sets things straight on this.) :
http://www.rationalchristianity.net/numbers31.html
Lastly comes the question what does any of this have to do with the price of tea in China. Just exactly how do any accusations about very ancient, even pre-Temple, Israel pertain today? Since Muslims deny that Jews ever even had possession of the land, nothing in the Bible regarding it can count as more than a fable either. That a Muslim would point to any of it as being binding upon people in a way they do not themselves claim to be bound by it, is therefore rather annoying although not exactly perplexing.
What is amusing about this is the Muslim, in saying that Jews and Christians are obligated to follow the law, is inadvertently saying they’re obligated to re-establish ancient Israel, because occupying the land was an integral part of the law. Ancient Israel was far more expansive than modern Israel. So if he means that stoning is still good because it was in the law, does he believe expanding Israel to its ancient borders is good also? That’s more a part of the Torah than stoning is, so it must be good, right? He can’t claim that part is a corrupted text because it is far too dominate a theme in far too many texts. Stoning, however, is rarely mentioned.
Its not exactly the stuff children learn in Sunday school, but all reasonably informed mature Christians surely are aware that they are not supposed to try to live by the codes set up for ancient Israel. Even the very most orthodox Jews are forced to follow a code of much later rabbinical tradition because there is not now a priesthood nor Temple nor tabernacle but even if there were it would not pertain to Gentiles. Obviously most Christians are Gentiles. So even without going into an exegesis on the difference between the Mosaic Covenant (Law) and the New Covenant (Grace) Jesus ordained as told in Matthew 26:28, (and elaborated upon in Hebrews chapter 8,) that certifying the rites and regulations of ancient Israel as applying now is not an obligation of Christians is clear. Muslims who delve into this matter confusedly, only reveal their paltry understanding of the Bible even while acting as if they understand so well that they can tell Christians where they fail to follow it. By that I mean they evidently have never heeded Acts chapter 15. There, regarding keeping the law of Moses, Peter asks: “Now therefore, why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?”
Lastly, let’s consider claims made recently here that Islam is the fastest growing religion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest_growing_religion
As you can see, only the birth rate of Muslims is greater. A person doesn’t confess belief at birth so that obviously is no indication of the power of Muhammad to attract devotees to him. The other clear conclusion is that trying to figure what religion is growing most makes for a statisticians head-ache. The only thing that is clearly true statistically about Muhammadans is that they are migrating out of the land of their cultural heritage — mostly to lands of Christian cultural heritage. Relocation is not growth, at least not growth in numbers.
Where one segment of Muslims is concerned, this has been a windfall for Christianity. It is something of a marvel that in the U.S. churches have formed comprised nearly entirely of former Muslims from Iran, but what is even more significant is that in Iran itself the conversions to Christianity now are in numbers only dreamed of before the Islamic Republic. Ironic isn’t it, that under the Shah when missionaries had free reign, far fewer Muslims were attracted to Christianity? Now that conversion to Christianity is a crime of imprisonment (and is being considered for the death penalty,) Christianity is growing — except by birth. The ethnic minority Christians (Armenians and Assyrians,) have left in droves, debilitating increases by birth.
Another claim was made that Muslims don’t burn churches and that Pakistan is kind to Christians. Read on and decide for yourself::
http://www.speroforum.com/a/19997/Pakistan-Churches-and-Christian-homes-burned
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/World/Pakistan/Pakistani-mob-attacks-churches-houses-of-Christians/articleshow/4844929.cms
Notice that event just a few days ago, is only the most recent of many. Not to be outdone, Iraqi Muslims bombed seven churches in 48 hours in July:
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/seventh.church.bombed.in.iraq.within.48.hours/23798.htm
But we must mention the attacks on Muslims in America after 9/11 and by Brits or Spaniards after their civilians were similarly slaughtered ruthlessly by Muslim terrorists. Yeah, I’d mention them except THERE WEREN’T ANY!!!
Oh, but there’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Still, no mosques bombed by the infidels. That’s only been done by other rival Muslims. The U.S. military could turn Mecca into a smoldering cinder at the push of a button. Our leadership isn’t reluctant to do that because they’re too Christian, (they’re not.) But if they were as rabidly vindictive as your typical Muslim terrorist, that pilgrimages to Mecca would by now be a death march to a radio-active hole in the ground, would be a distinct possibility. Think about that the next time you want to draw moral equivalents between the U.S. government and Islamic regimes of which Iran is currently the prime example.
KILLED BY CHRISTIANS, YOU LOVE POINTING THE FINGER,AND FORGET HOW MANY ARE POINTING AT YOU!!!!!!!
akhter, you don’t have video posting privileges here. Get your own blog.
Way to go Ernest. But I’m afraid that’s way to much reading for a Muslim. Besides, like the Liberals, Muslims don’t like facts, they just want to promote their propaganda to take in the weak minded.
Before dragging “religions” into the realms of the usual “Three Book Religions” esp. Christianity and Islam, hypocrisy, double-speak, politics, business and fanaticism, check out Buddhism and Hinduism. Both these systems have a consistent, sane and reasoned legacy. The “Three Book Religions” are the ones that get their knickers in a twist, provide excuses for wars, political division, dimwitted delusion nonsensical tripe sold by ‘evangelical Mind Exploiters’ into Making $$$ anyone else wish to fall sucker for Billy Graham, Benny Hinn and other huge conmen ?..Ch.8 Bhagavad Gita.
Did you see that Islamic-muslim video showing masses of them of them building hospitals, schools for girls, a peace-corp, jobs and job training for all, adequate medical care and cheap access. Encouraging freedom and democracy, world peace, tolerance. etc ? NEITHER DID I !!
akhter, you are an ignorant dope that cannot express yourself, and you are totally unable to articulate any rational thought. You are nothing more than a primed-robot ranting all that other ignoramuse’s said of late. Stop wasting fresh air.
Baby it was,nt a video ,but an ex Christians website,fact is you can not stand the truth,you and your cronies can carry on moaning ,be as vile as you like BUT DESPITE ALL THAT ,ISLAM still grows faster than your filthy tales here,
Why are so many Women converting to Islam ?
According to “The Almanac Book of Facts”, the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.
In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?
It is Clear why Christians are converting.
1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why: http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html
2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions. http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html
3. Jesus is a Muslim: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html
The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur’an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says “The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss” {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur’an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur’an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur’an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur’an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur’an 4:22} and God Protects
All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife’s
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur’an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives” {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:” It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)”.
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.
Here is a list of previous Female Muslim leaders:
Khadija bint Khuwaylid
Aishah bint Abu Bakr
Fatimah bint Muhammad
Barakah
Ramlah bint Abu Sufyan
Rumaysa bint Milhan
Umm Salamah
Asma bint Abu Bakr
Zaynab al-Ghazali
Maryum Jameelah
The comparison goes on and on, to hear from some of these Converts, including Nuns, and Many Famous People, visit here; http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/newmuslims/
For more information and Statistics, visit here; http://www.jannah.org/sisters/
This is Dedicated to Past, Present, and Future Muslim Sisters, Family and Friends, to the Devil who prefers slander and hype over facts. Peace and Blessings upon All.
akhter, Don’t call me baby, you raghead. And stop wasting bandwidth on crap nobody reads.
Who cares about ‘converts’ to islam’-? Reason and sanity will prevail whereas islam is far too screwball to last the course against human better education. Islam is impermanent nonetheless and faces extinction as does Mt.Everest. But sanity and reason will always be there. “Conversion” to islam is only about experiencing the exotic as a form of escapism. Sooner or later, especially with Western women “imprisoned” in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. the yearning to return to true civility, egality, equality, democracy will ever arise. signed, The Grand Kafir of Infidelistan, Bradford, Yorkshire, England.
08hayabusa
I’m afraid you’re right about liberals. They do rather undeniably depend upon the ignorance of the masses.
But let’s not be too cynical. Those Iranians aren’t converting flippantly because it’s convenient. I don’t know how much reading a lot plays a part, but I do know that Iranians typically are very studious and hold being educated in high regard — as do many Muslims. Of course people convert for many reasons. Intermarriage is probably the most common, but that wouldn’t explain a church made up mostly of converts.
I do understand that this site exists primarily for growling and that Muslims are allowed in to growl back mostly just to make it a bit more sporting. However, that some are allowed to post anti-Christian screeds (ostensibly in defence of Islam,) is more generous than sporting. I don’t object to that generosity, on the contrary, it allows the opportunity to expose the fallacies in the screeds. I suppose some could be left to expose themselves. For example, Salman told us (in the Muslim Girls Just Wanna Have Fun forum,) that the book of Song of Songs contains Muhammad’s name prophetically, while here he has told us Song of Songs is nothing but thinly veiled pornography. But I’ll bet you missed that didn’t you? Not only did he contradict himself, but he was also wrong on both points.
It’s striking how reflexively the Muhammadan defends his faith against criticism by attacking other faiths, (chiefly Christianity,) even when the critic is not a person of any faith. Let’s suppose he succeeds in convincing a critic that Christianity is as bad or worse. What has he accomplished by that other than to make that person a critic of Christianity as well as a critic of Islam? It’s an odd way to defend one’s faith.
That’s why Drew’s recent comment was a breath of fresh air. I’d like the Muhammadan to take a turn at attacking Eastern Mysticism for awhile to give Christianity a rest. Even better, let him explain why the atheist is wrong. That is actually where he ought to begin because if his Allah doesn’t truly even exist, it doesn’t make one thing better for him to be confident every other religion is more mistaken than his own.
Not only that, but if he thinks Western culture is his enemy, he would still be facing a quite formidable foe even if Christianity could be eliminated from it entirely, and almost certainly a far less merciful one. Suppress Christianity and what do you get? Germany got Hitler. Russian; Stalin. Hitler the occultist; Stalin the atheist.
Oh, by the way. Know what’s increasing at greater rates than any religious conversions? Lots of things plenty of which are not good, which is only to show that such statistics suffer not only from being more often than not faulty, but open to plenty of debate as to what any of it signifies.
well done akhter, brilliant FACTS, unlike shithead barenakedjew, mashallah brother keep up the work against this DEVIL’s site, barenaked is a true footsoldier of satan, and may he rest in the deepest depths of hell with his master IBLIS(lucifer).
sena…..shut the fuck up…would you? You anger me intensley.
Bare….pardon my language.
akhter and the muslim retards,
if quran is really from god (allah) … Allah for sure is a dickhead.
Even a normal 6 year old kid can find countless quranic verses illogical ,,,
and muhammad’s (my peace taken away by him) hadith is a comedy of errors.
If given chance muhaMAD could be the greatest comical character. the overacting Muslims are depriving him of this worthy opportunity.
Quran is absurd and worthless …each verse either starts with a praise or ends with praise for allah ( as if allah is self obsessed) and the same things keeps repeating again and again… and half of the verses threaten you in some way… some surah:verses just describe the happenings of past and present of that time ( could be used as history text) …with repetitions of the same praises and threatenings in between… and the remaining few verses say some good things which are known to any normal human being without ever studying quran. verses doesn’t sound like some supernatural brain worked on them. love, compassion, humanity, sympathy, etc etc have absolutely no place in quran. By chance if you find any you are lucky.Maybe muhammad(my peace taken away by him) dont know that such kind of feelings exist. …….. contd
????
Does god orders infidels be killed if he is the one who gave life to them?
why convert to muslim when you can be good and do good whatever you are?
If someone is good, make no mistakes and not harm others why should he fear allah?
if we should submit to allah just for giving us life, who the fuck begged allah for this bloody life?
…….
If god is there, Hitler could never have been there.
No problem, Tammy, I just deleted his last comment, too vile.
Comment by akhter on August 6, 2009 1:55 pm
I’m sure you are just quoting what your clerics or Imams tell you. But you know nothing of the Bible or what it teaches.
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur’an 7:19-25}
The bible does not convict women, it convicts Eve , and since Adam threw in his lot with her it convicts him also.
2. The Bible says “The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss” {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur’an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur’an 42:49}
There is no bible book called Ecclesiasicus. In case you meant Ecclesiastes it only has 12 chapters not 22.
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur’an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
That is because of the headship.
(1 Corinthians 11:7-9) 7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, as he is God’s image and glory; but the woman is man’s glory. 8 For man is not out of woman, but woman out of man; 9 and, what is more, man was not created for the sake of the woman, but woman for the sake of the man. . .
(1 Corinthians 11:3) . . .But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.
This though is not detrimental to women because the bible also says:
(Ephesians 5:23-25) . . .. 24 In fact, as the congregation is in subjection to the Christ, so let wives also be to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, continue loving YOUR wives, just as the Christ also loved the congregation and delivered up himself for it,
(Ephesians 5:28-29) 28 In this way husbands ought to be loving their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself, 29 for no man ever hated his own flesh; but he feeds and cherishes it, as the Christ also does the congregation. . .
(Ephesians 5:33) 33 Nevertheless, also, let each one of YOU individually so love his wife as he does himself; on the other hand, the wife should have deep respect for her husband. . .
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur’an 30:21}
You are mistaken about a man not being labeled the same as a woman.
(Matthew 5:31-32) 31 “Moreover it was said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 However, I say to YOU that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of fornication, makes her a subject for adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
(Matthew 19:9) 9 I say to YOU that whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.”
(Mark 10:10-12) . . .. 11 And he said to them: “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, 12 and if ever a woman, after divorcing her husband, marries another, she commits adultery.”
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur’an 4:22} and God Protects
All.
I believe this puts this lie to rest because Jehovah himself said these women were speaking right. You must realize that Numbers was only the fourth book of the bible, so we are at it’s beginning. The Bible is a book of justice and moral principles. Not murder and butchering like the Quran.
(Numbers 27:1-11) 27 Then the daughters of Ze·lo´phe·had the son of He´pher the son of Gil´e·ad the son of Ma´chir the son of Ma·nas´seh, of the families of Ma·nas´seh the son of Joseph, came near. And these were the names of his daughters: Mah´lah, Noah and Hog´lah and Mil´cah and Tir´zah. 2 And they proceeded to stand before Moses and before El·e·a´zar the priest and before the chieftains and all the assembly at the entrance of the tent of meeting, saying: 3 “Our father has died in the wilderness, and yet he did not prove to be in among the assembly, that is, those who ranged themselves against Jehovah in the assembly of Ko´rah, but for his own sin he has died; and he did not get to have any sons. 4 Why should the name of our father be taken away from the midst of his family because he had no son? O give us a possession in the midst of our father’s brothers.” 5 At that Moses presented their case before Jehovah. 6 Jehovah then said this to Moses: 7 “The daughters of Ze·lo´phe·had are speaking right. By all means you should give them the possession of an inheritance in the midst of their father’s brothers, and you must cause their father’s inheritance to pass to them. 8 And to the sons of Israel you should speak, saying, ‘In case any man should die without his having a son, YOU must then cause his inheritance to pass to his daughter. 9 And if he has no daughter, YOU must then give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 And if he has no brothers, YOU must then give his inheritance to his father’s brothers. 11 And if his father has no brothers, YOU must then give his inheritance to his blood relation who is closest to him of his family, and he must take possession of it. And it must serve as a statute by judicial decision for the sons of Israel, just as Jehovah has commanded Moses.’”
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife’s
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur’an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
The Bible here is merely recording Soloman’s sins. It does not condone mutiple wives. It only allows for one wife.
(1 Kings 11:1-6) 11 And King Sol´o·mon himself loved many foreign wives along with the daughter of Phar´aoh, Mo´ab·ite, Am´mon·ite, E´dom·ite, Si·do´ni·an [and] Hit´tite women, 2 from the nations of whom Jehovah had said to the sons of Israel: “YOU must not go in among them, and they themselves should not come in among YOU; truly they will incline YOUR heart to follow their gods.” It was to them that Sol´o·mon clung to love [them]. 3 And he came to have seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives gradually inclined his heart. 4 And it came about in the time of Sol´o·mon’s growing old that his wives themselves had inclined his heart to follow other gods; and his heart did not prove to be complete with Jehovah his God like the heart of David his father. 5 And Sol´o·mon began going after Ash´to·reth the goddess of the Si·do´ni·ans and after Mil´com the disgusting thing of the Am´mon·ites. 6 And Sol´o·mon began to do what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah, and he did not follow Jehovah fully like David his father.
(1 Corinthians 7:1-2) . . .Now concerning the things about which YOU wrote, it is well for a man not to touch a woman; 2 yet, because of prevalence of fornication, let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband. . .
(1 Timothy 3:1-2) . . .. 2 The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, . . .
(Genesis 2:18) 18 And Jehovah God went on to say: “It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him. . .
(Genesis 2:20-24) . . .. 21 Hence Jehovah God had a deep sleep fall upon the man and, while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. 22 And Jehovah God proceeded to build the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman and to bring her to the man. 23 Then the man said: “This is at last bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh. This one will be called Woman, Because from man this one was taken.” 24 That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.
Notice that God only gave Adam one wife.
I’m not even going to address #7 except to say you are completely out of context.
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
The Bible does not ask women to wear veils but instead a head covering for the sake of the headship.
(1 Corinthians 11:3-10) 3 But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God. 4 Every man that prays or prophesies having something on his head shames his head; 5 but every woman that prays or prophesies with her head uncovered shames her head, for it is one and the same as if she were a [woman] with a shaved head. 6 For if a woman does not cover herself, let her also be shorn; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered. 7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, as he is God’s image and glory; but the woman is man’s glory. 8 For man is not out of woman, but woman out of man; 9 and, what is more, man was not created for the sake of the woman, but woman for the sake of the man. 10 That is why the woman ought to have a sign of authority upon her head because of the angels.
We are talking about a prophetess here. One teaching a man about Christianity when a suitable brother is not present. It also covers prophesying in the presence of brothers. Only at those times is a woman to wear a head covering. It has everything to do with respect for the headship and nothing whatsoever to do with rape.
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
From what I’ve seen of Islam women have no rights. So you can peddle that lie elsewhere.
You act like the US has denied women the right to vote for 1500 years. Sorry, but we’ve only been a country for a little over 200 years. So in that context woman have been able to vote for half the time of the country’s existence.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.
You really are a joke aren’t you? Any woman that wants to, can run for President. We do not oppress women here, Muslim. They run corporations, they are in Congress, they are Governors. And I’m sure when the right woman comes along we will have a woman President.
Well done 08hayabusa. Since you decided to skip #7, allow me to fill that gap.
RE: Deuteronomy 22:25-29
I’ve said before that the King James Version is not improved upon by the NIV and this passage is an example of that. In verse 25 the KJV tells of a damsel who is betrothed being FORCED by a man in a field where no one could hear her cries. The punishment is that he should die but no punishment for the woman. In the verse Akhter refers to, verse 28, the damsel is NOT betrothed and the man and she are found together. Notice the contrast: verse 25; FORCED with no one to hear her cries. Verse 28; no force, and the two found, or in other words, discovered implying being caught. In that case the two must marry. If the man had forced her we should expect him to die as verse 25 indicates. Yet in verse 28 the man is let to live, but since the damsel was not his wife yet, nor even betrothed to him, he must pay a hefty fee in silver and may not ever divorce her for any reason. In other words, the woman’s punishment for being caught in pre-marital sex was she had to marry who she was with but the man’s punishment was that, plus a fee (which could be the normal fee any groom paid to the father-in-law,) plus he could never divorce her. If the damsel had been betrothed to another, presumably the punishment would be harsher but that is not addressed.
The matter is fully examined here:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm
Unfortunately, the “improvements” of modern translators come at a cost. The accusation that the Bible teaches that a rapist and his victim must marry is gleefully repeated often. An example:
http://godisabitofadick.com/biblefunnies/deuteronomy-2228-29-new-international-version/
One has to take into account the place, ‘culture’ and the day & age from whence these ideas and writings were written. Things get lost in translation, especially with the Bible having passed thru several languages before arriving in English into English households, for the common man, in the 1800’s. Add that King James wanted his own particular changes despite advice to the contrary from some three dozen well learned translators, who came under a death-sentence if they did not abide with King James ideas. Hardly benign, King James hired a “Witchfinder general” who, in all licenced barbarity, let loose this sadistic psychopath and his cohort, who unleashed unspeakble torture upon ( and in this order ) women, children and old men. King James was a sadist of unspeakble pro-barbarity that one could put him easily in par with today’s islamic barbarians and torturers per the videos one sees and witnessses here. Gladly, England grew well out of this sado-’artform’ and meanwghile, Islam continues with its 7th century barbarity..to date including the death of a beautiful young woman at the hands of misgynistic Irani psychopaths into unspeakable tortures, iron bar beatings upon all and sundry, gender, age, health, those who had to bear witness to the atrocities, mattered not to these Sadistic Psychopaths. signed, The Grand Kafir of Infidelistan, Hollandanbul, Denmecca, Swedenistan,
Good for you Earnest. It was stated so far out of context I didn’t even know where to begin.
Thanks, 08hayabusa. Here’s some more:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TU9DT2QDTMATFQUQ5
Take a look at that and notice the list is the same as the one Akhtar used, right down to being in the same numbered order.
When material is copied verbatim one is obliged to cite the source, even if the original author has given permission to use it. That’s why having someone else write a term paper for you in college, even if that person doesn’t mind you claiming you wrote it yourself, is still considered plagiarism.
I know plagiarism runs amok on the Internet and nothing much can be done about it, but it is still worth reminding people that it is not just lazy or sloppy form but is also dishonest. Now if Akhtar had cited a source like the one above, he could’ve saved himself that embarrassment. Even though it is very unlikely “Islam Hurts” is the original source any more than that Akhtar is, since “Islam Hurts” didn’t give an original source either, Akhtar would then be allowed to assume that “Islam Hurts” was the original author. But since neither one credits any author but rather wrote as if it were their own words, we know that either one or likely both of them, have plagiarized.
Could they possible be the same person? Yes, but the pattern is that this stuff shows up in the same words in various websites under various monikers none of them ever crediting a source. Either the author is one busy beaver or there is a whole lot of parroting going on. In any case if Akbar is “Islam Hurts” I’d like to know why he chose that moniker.
It is hardly an isolated incident. On the contrary, what defense has been put up here by any Muslim not comprised chiefly of plagiarized material? However, it is quite possible I’m holding them to a standard they do not value. The Koran itself contains much that repeats things from earlier sources often nearly verbatim and without any allusion to them harkening back to anything, but as if they are meant as being original. I’m not talking about synoptic accounts or recapitulations or just similarity or resemblance, but rather tales from outside sources told in only slightly different words. In fact, Muhammad addressed the problem (Sura 25:5&6) himself, but instead of saying his stories are affirmations of previous ones, he claimed (or so it appears,) God gave them to him. Here is a source for some study of the matter:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Sources/index.html
Lastly, lest anyone be beguiled into thinking Americans are converting to Islam at a remarkable rate, take this into account if you will. http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_islam_usa.html
Having 99.05% of the population being non-Muslim creates a vast pool from which to draw converts to Islam. However, having only half of one percent of the population being Muslim means there are only a very few Muslims even available to convert. So there could actually be a very large percentage of American Muslims converting to Christianity and a very small percentage of Americans converting to Islam and the numbers of the latter could still be far higher than the former. Incidentally, that .5% figure is only even that large due to immigration. Conversion has virtually no effect on it. Anyway, as the saying goes, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. The article certainly seems to make that point.
http://islaminitsownwords.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-reply-to-classical-muslim_8391.html
FYI
You don’t mess around when you research Ernest. It took me two hours to read those three posts, and the first one I could have spent several days on.
Correction four posts. And it was the second one I could have spent days on.
08, I bet the Muslims didn’t read them.
Comment by Drew on August 7, 2009 2:59 pm
“One has to take into account the place, ‘culture’ and the day & age from whence these ideas and writings were written. Things get lost in translation, especially with the Bible having passed thru several languages before arriving in English into English households, for the common man, in the 1800’s.”
Must I remind you we colonists had the Bible in our households too? When conflicts with Britain cut off the import of Bibles, Congress subsidized the printing of them here under mandate. And of course now many more Bibles are produced in the U.S. than in Britain.
Yes, what you say is somewhat true Drew, but I’m afraid your account is rather faulty. For example your “several languages” notion is just wrong. They worked from Greek and Hebrew texts; the original languages. However, your mentioning that Jimmy would threaten even the translators themselves with death is helpful, as it shows his behavior was if anything a reflection of Lord Acton’s famous aphorism that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, or just Jimmy’s corruption from whatever cause, but in any case not his piety surely. Is it true the man had “unnatural affections”? Do you know the passages over which he had the temerity to meddle? No matter. Other translations are available. Because we have translations (and because we’re literate,) we are not so dependent on the clergy as our forebears were, but the clergy who know the original Greek and Hebrew still provide much guidance, although lexicons are also available to laymen. The ambitious layman can extensively study the Greek and Hebrew if he so desires.
If you are suspicious that Christians have played fast and loose with translations I urge you to get a copy of an authorized translation of the Tanakh from Jewish sources for comparison. That might not set your mind at ease about the New Testament, but it will give you reason to pause. If such care has been taken with the Old Testament, should it be expected that less has been done with the New?
Jimmy authorized the translation, which only shows even a stopped clock still gets the time right twice in a 24 hour period. As the civil authority he was a despot of the regrettably frequent kind of which our Muslim friends are also all too familiar. You mourned the victims of barbarism accused of witchcraft but failed to mention the many more saints. William Tyndale for example, an earlier translator of the Bible into English, was burned alive while crying out for the Lord to open the king of England’s eyes.
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/kjvhist.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_King_James_Version
If your message to the Muslim, Drew, is don’t count us all as Christians (and we could include observant Jews with Christians too,) then I’ll gladly join in that chorus. We might add a warning to be careful about lumping all Christians together too; a plea our Muslim friends here sometimes about themselves make and of which I am inclined to respect. I’ve no doubt it’s possible for Muslims to live in a civil manner even with the infidel given the right circumstances. Unfortunately the circumstances are terrible and relations quite strained currently and I believe radical Muslim fanatics are entirely to blame. Not everyone who calls himself a Muslim should be held accountable. Islam cannot be defined by Osama bin Ladin any more than Roman Catholicism is defined by Tomas de Torquemada, nor should every individual Catholic or Muslim be figured as being of the same mind as them. However, Christianity is defined by the person Jesus Christ and Islam by the person Muhammad. That is the fatal error of every Muhammadan, even the most harmless; that he misplaces his affections. He clings to Muhammad and distances Jesus despite the fact that Muhammad described Jesus as being greater than himself. Muhammad provided his followers with enough clues as if to leave them to blame themselves not him.
Holy cow…thanks Ernest. I knew something was fishy….but now I know the truth…Akhter is just like Mohammed…a freeeeekin copy cat….lol.
Seriously…there was some very good information with the links you provided. I saved the links and will read all of it.
barenaked:
Your pithy barb had me in stitches! What are the odds? However, I figure that if the Muslim defenders here find it worth their effort, they must fear other Muslims are taking a peek as well. As I’ve described it before, your website is too bluntly vulgar to fault it on that account. It would be silly to complain that it is fulfilling its purpose. Anyone, including any Muslim, ought to figure that out right away. The radical Muslims have thrown down the gauntlet with their unspeakable acts of murder and their oppression. Your response is quite civil by contrast.
Put aside the bombs and guns and all manner of oppression and let everything be decided by debate and for each individual by what they decide themselves. Then Muhammad loses. It’s as simple as that. They are sorely at a disadvantage and entirely dependent on the infidel (China, N.Korea, and Russia,) with their bombs and guns — except for the tantalizing prospect of Pakistani nukes and Iran about to join the club. Disadvantage or not, they must pin their hopes on it. In the arena or rational discourse and in appealing to the longings of the human soul, they would not have survived even in the Arabian desert some 1300 years ago. Certainly not if they had to compete with Christian missionaries. Well, that was a bit blunt wasn’t it? Yes, it is along the lines of if the shoe fits wear it, but I figure that’s acceptable here.
Drew, Earnest: This me like velly, velly much! A lot more thought provoking than shedding light on the obvious, e.g., “Akhtar! You’re such an asshole!” Good journalism, good rationalization, good argument, credible bullshit! Yes, you’re right! The Quran is admittedly derived from earlier “works”, i.e., from Zabur (Psalms), Tora (NOT the Japanese “Tora! Tora! Tora!” Wise Guy!!), and the Enjeel (Bible) – and from the same source; ‘plagiarized’ by someOne Who claims exclusive credit as the narrator and source of authorship thru’ designated agents! This makes sense to me: One God, and One Law throughout. But just how one chooses to interpret (or improvise on) the Law has given rise to creative variations of The Word and diversity in ‘religion’.
For instance, which freakin’ ‘version’ of the bible is THE Bible? ‘Cos there’s there ain’t no original in ancient Aaramaic nowhere, Dudes! The ‘Unabridged’ Version? Douay version? American Standard, Gaelic Gospel of Mark, Webster’s Bible, World English Bible, Young’s Literal Translation, the various ‘Pocket’ Editions and multilingual translations and, not to be outdone, the several cult versions, more notably the ‘correct’, ‘re-written’ Mormon Version by illiterate charlatan Joseph Smith: a perpetually morphing ‘word of god’ that keeps pace with the LDS cult’s ravenous monitory appetite. [But, give the devil his due, here’s one church that personifies the American Spirit: “Be all that you can be”! Hell, you can even be a god or, if you prefer, God Himself after you die (for a price). And if perchance you end up as decayed feces, well, go back to the church for a refund! Hang on to that receipt, Pilgrim. And Good Luck!].
There is reference to “Allah” in the remnants of the Old Testament: “elah” this Aramaic word is the equivalent of the Hebrew “eloah” (general term for “God” in the Aramaic passages); it is a cognate form of the word ‘allah’, the reference to God in Islam. The word was used widely in the Book of Ezra, occurring no fewer than 43 times between Ezra 4:24 and 7:26. Whaddafudge!! We can’t admit to that! So let’s just get rid of the whole darn issue from our ‘Bible’ and avoid any possible parallels with Islam.
Ponying up on the rhetoric and this matter of innovation in the Bible, i.e., to enhances its appeal and marketability by ‘dressing up’ or conveniently eradicating some selected sections, there’s enough porn in the bastardized ‘bible’ to stroke even the most prudish into an acceptable hard-on! The Faggot King James Version makes for some stimulating bathroom reading. Yes Folks: Jimmy was a notorious hemorrhoid-popped ankle grabber getting his itch relieved by Cousin Esmé Stuart and others. Go research for yourself! In fact, he was affectionately referred to as ‘Queen’ James by those who ‘knew him’ (in the ‘biblical’ sense, of course! Yuk! Yuk!). Queen Jimmy’s lil’ Black Book is the word of a notorious, insatiable, weenie lover on a phallus-kiestering mission! It’s no real wonder, therefore, why Jimmy’s version is relatively easy on homosexuality (despite God’s clear stance displayed a la Sodom & ‘Goindarear’!!). Jimmy’s contribution to Christendom was a tad short of the Colonel’s endeavor for the welfare of Kentucky chicken.
There should be no compulsion in religion folks but I’m sure the likes of Queen Isadora (remember the Inquisition? It’s still going on!), ‘Clitler’, Yugoslavia’s Pavolic, etc., the Champions of Christendom, would disagree.
Be warned you who blaspheme against God-Allah-Jehova-Eloah … and His Emissaries: Your guile, witticism, and distortion of His message is preparing for you a very despairing future. There is no compulsion in religion but, I assure you, when the time is nigh (and the door of repentance is closed), even the most hardcore sceptic will believe!
Comment by Carlisle Collins. For instance, which freakin’ ‘version’ of the bible is THE Bible? ‘Cos there’s there ain’t no original in ancient Aaramaic nowhere, Dudes!
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I am always amused at this response about the Bible. We have the writings of Plato and Socrates and other ancient writings, and there are perhaps only a dozen of these that actually exist, and yet no one has a problem with the veracity of these documents or books. And yet here we have a book, the Bible, that we have literally thousands of historic copies of, from all over the world, up to and including the dead sea scrolls, and yet intelligent people such as yourself still make that asinine statement. There is not a more documented literary piece on the planet that matches the bible in sheer numbers. So there is no question that what we have today is as it was written. And except for the Douay, Catholic version, with the extra books, I can’t really find in my limited comparisons, any difference from one English translation to another. They all convey the same idea, verse for verse. It’s just a different use of words, but the idea conveyed is the same. And as Ernest posted to me earlier, this website will convey the difference of translation to you. I have others also, but for the sake of convenience I will use his.
http://islaminitsownwords.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-reply-to-classical-muslim_8391.html
Now granted there are some versions out there that various groups have had written for their convenience of belief, but they are not recognized as being authentic.
My personal favorite is The New World Translation. The reason being is twofold. One, it’s written in 20th Century English, and Two, it has put Jehovah’s name back in all 7,000 times of its occurrence, instead of removing it for superstitious reasons and replacing that great name with one of his titles LORD. It has a more personal touch to acknowledge a God who has a personal name. And besides, I think a book ought to include the authors’ name, especially since it was written more than any other name in the Bible.
So in conclusion, Methinks you doth protest too much.
My studies in this regard are limited. A TV documentary pointed to the tyranny of Jimmy. I would think there are better translations today given certain findings and a better degree of thoroughness and intercom. Pendle Hill is where I was born. They hanged three “witches” there. Just three ordinary women. Q-? “Who’s authority called it the “New Testament”-? and why “new”-? Words are limited, rational is only rational, logic does not explain everything. Hence my yen for the intuitive trainings of Eastern systems.
ALERT ! ALERT ! Lettem all know:- The mindset of muslim-nutcases-into-lunacy..Get This:- They emigrate to a country of choice in the West and having got there, they think thus:- “We are ‘muslims’ and the Planet belongs to Allah. Infidels do not belong to ‘allah’ and so the country we have adopted is ‘truly’ ours !” This is a heavy piece of cerebral Oxyclean. But this is yet another muslim fanatic ranting mindset seen on tv ten days ago. And, well ?*&^%$# I’ll be frikkin well darned at this delusional uttering by ragheaded, barbarian-on-welfare with soiled underwear, bad breath, rotten teeth and a bestial attraction for carnal-knowledge with camels and goats. Did anyone see the covert video those German troops took in Afghanistan ? of a cattle herder in the bushes shagging one of his..yes..COWS !! I’ll be investing producing a Cows Calendar with Bovines-in-Bikinis..see if it sells ?
Comment by Drew on August 8, 2009 2:11 pm
My studies in this regard are limited. A TV documentary pointed to the tyranny of Jimmy. I would think there are better translations today given certain findings and a better degree of thoroughness and intercom. Pendle Hill is where I was born. They hanged three “witches” there. Just three ordinary women. Q-? “Who’s authority called it the “New Testament”-? and why “new”-? Words are limited, rational is only rational, logic does not explain everything. Hence my yen for the intuitive trainings of Eastern systems.
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Actually it does the Bible a disservice to refer to it in the terms, Old testament or New testament. It would be more accurate to refer to it as the covenant with Israel and the covenant with Christ, but even that would be a disservice because it tends to form a separation of the two. It is more accurate to refer to the Old testament as simply the Hebrew scriptures because except for one or two parts written in Aramaic, that is the language it was written in. And the New testament as the Greek scriptures because that is the language it was originally written in. There should be no separation of the two, because as Paul said in his letter to Timothy at (2 Timothy 3:16-17) 16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Glad tidings anyone ? The latest disease amid muslim “Fruit & Nutcases” is the hilarious “civil-war-jihad”. This is where we find the frustrated homicidal-suicidal ( same coin, different sides ) muslim, is now turning against themselves. Muslim onlookers are stark raving befuddled seeing this development. But, of course, not us Western members of Infidelsitan. The self-eliminating convenience, of mad muslim against mad muslim, is something muslims in all their delusion get eventually get caught up in. I can put my feet up, get a beer from the fridge ( giving none to Achmed of course ) lay back, and watch the games commence. See latest is Taliban vs taliban now !! More beer time for our troops. Hamas vs Foofoo, Hizizi vs goo-goo, magga vs wagga, ( so many nutcase factions with ridiculous names I forget ) Kookoo vs Loonie, Vicky vs Verky, and so forth. “Civil war jihad” a word coined by a muslim recently, in all his ..well, lunacy. I hope that “civil-war-jihad” will continue to promote itself in all its delusional lunacy, and then get a ‘Darwin’ Award for such breathtaking complete lunacy and psychopathology. A kinda “Let Allah sort them out” on our ( us infidels ) behalf. Long ‘live’ “civil-war-jihad.” You totally Fukkin loony muslims !! ha ha ha..
I find the bible to be far too contradictory to vouchsafe for. These inconsistencies are enough to enhance anyone’s neuroses, after all, a major cause of neuroses is in fact ‘inconsistency’. Hence my yen, I repeat, for Eastern systems which I find consistent. Grand Kafir of Infidelistan, Stockholm.
Drew, what inconsistencies or contradictions are you referring to? I have always found it better to let the bible explain itself, rather than trying to read something into a scripture I don’t understand.
For instance:
(John 14:9) 9 Jesus said to him: “Have I been with YOU men so long a time, and yet, Philip, you have not come to know me? He that has seen me has seen the Father [also]. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Some faiths have taken this scripture to mean that Jesus was saying he was God.
But here’s what he said in other scriptures:
(John 14:28) 28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am. . .
(Matthew 24:36) 36 “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.
So obviously by these scriptures he was not God but the son of God. So what did he mean by saying, “ He that has seen me has seen the Father?”
Further review of the scriptures reveal these words:
(Colossians 1:14-17) . . .. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 1. . .
This scripture says a lot about Jesus. First it says he is the image of the invisible God. Then it says he is the firstborn of all creation. First he is the perfect reflection of his Father and his attributes. And Second, that he was created, so obviously he is not God. Third it says he had a pre-human existence if all things were created through him and for him and that he was the first of all creation. That would also explain why he is called the only begotten son, if everything else was created through him and for him. This would also explain who God was talking to at (Genesis 1:26) 26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, . . .It would have been the only begotten Son.
So in conclusion there is only one obvious meaning to him saying “He that has seen me has seen the Father.” He was such a perfect reflection of his Father, that it was as though his Father was there. By their seeing him, it was as though they were seeing his Father.
And so upon careful examination of the scriptures one does not have a contradiction but has a satisfactory explanation for each verse. And the two are still separate Persons as the scriptures claim throughout. One is the Father and one is the Son. Let the scriptures explain themselves.
There are many contradictions to me. And, it comes across as of an unseemly ego-driven braggart, when I read sentences such as .” None shall enter the kingdom of God but through me.” Then we have Jesus walking upon the water without sinking. What this is meant to prove is beyond me, as such an event is surely a violation of natural laws. That, and of course, its strain upon human credulity. I could accept it as Mythological, but certainly not as a fact. Then there is the area of a Hell realm where all manner of sadistic stews exist for an atheist, non Christian, infidel or non-believer, which allies to islam with a similar cruel claim in this regard. And so forth.
Speaking as one who’s barely hanging on to monotheism by his fingernails (thanks to the creative versions of ‘truth’ floating around in our cesspool of misinformation), I believe ‘intellectual’ discussions such as this are tantamount to critiquing the Divine Word (i.e., IF indeed the Word is divine!). I don’t see myself qualified to participate; certainly not with any reliable, scholarly authority that would anoint my contribution with credence. I write that which I believe is right, at the risk of having to pull my feet out of my mouth (or the other end) for playing the devil’s advocate and/or attempting to champion the cause of the underdog – or just expressing an opinion.
08hayabusa: Your assessment is inaccurate that there’s no “difference from one English translation to another. They all convey the same idea, verse for verse. It’s just a different use of words, but the idea conveyed is the same…”. At the risk of being booted out on my bare naked derriere by barenakedislam for hogging his bandwidth, let me mention just a couple examples: The prohibition on consuming intoxicating liquors, flesh of swine (Leveticus), the command that women be modestly attired, not be in a position of leadership, and usurp the authority of man but be silent and obedient, etc. (Timothy). You will notice that over time, the ‘biblical’ translations became progressively diluted and ‘politically correct’ taking on a discretionary appearance of tolerance – or simply vanished. So despite the sheer numbers of multifarious ‘versions’ of God’s purported Word floating around the planet, does sheer numbers validate Truth as though this determination is contingent on popular vote? If it were so, Buddhism or Hinduism would win hands down!
You state that, “Now granted there are some versions out there that various groups have had written for their convenience of belief, but they are not recognized as being authentic.” But this in itself is an opinion, not necessarily factual. Your dissidents could use (and DO!) the same arbitrary standard to refute authenticity of (whichever) version of the bible you regard as being de facto. Know’umsayin’?
Nevertheless, I see a welcome change in tone from, “CC: You’re a freakin’ asshole!” to “CC: You’re an asshole!” (Right on both counts! But that’s MISTER Asshole to you! Jeez! Hows’bout sm’Respekt!!).
Anyway, I came across these interesting verses in (YES!) the Koran that I thought of sharing. Check it out for what its worth ‘cos from what I see here as well as in some other blogs, Bub (that’s BeezelBub), is doing a magnificent job at fulfilling his boast:
‘5:91 – Satan’s plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain? 7:22, 7:27 – And their Lord called unto them: “Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?” O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them. 35:6 – Verily Satan is an enemy to you: so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his adherents, that they may become Companions of the Blazing Fire’.
I hate to sound benedictory but there’s hope yet, thru’ love: ‘41:34 – But [since] good and evil cannot be equal, repel thou [evil] with something that is better [31] and lo! He between whom and thyself was enmity [may then become] as though he had [always] been close [unto thee], a true friend!’
Whaddya’say we invite everyone to meet the test?
Dear all, these all information is wrong. I am a Hindi and want to tell a truth “Sathyameva Jayathe”. Only truth can win the war despite of all wrong information. You cannot stop winning the race of truth.
Read first rules an regulation of Islam and then comment, till then shut up.
thanks and regards,
Rajan
Hey Rajan: “Say WHATT!?” Do I think I know what you’re meaning to say? I’m sure most of the stuff I wrote passed way over your head, Dude! (You must have ducked just in time!). Just for a wee bit here I thought you was calling me names! This was a new one on me, Pardner! But thanks to Google and the WWW, I discovered it meant “Truth alone has to Win”! Try selling that fantasy to the Advertising/Media conglomerates!
The “Rules and Regulations” (and let’s also throw in the Instruction Manual and Warranty Card) of any monotheistic religion are fundamentally similar: simple, practical, easy to follow, i.e.,: One God, one set of Laws, death, resurrection, Justice, and recompensation. In a nutshell, it’s all about “Doing Good and Being Good” and worshipping the only One worthy of worship
Granted, it’s not as groovy as (say) Hinduism where mythological personalities are anointed by mortals with divinity along with their penis’s and vaginas, and a host of living incarnates viz. snakes, monkeys, elephants, bovine and their sculptured representations. Add to this the traditional liberal Hindu leanings toward, what we, the narrow-minded monotheists, would regard as blasphemous, sinful, represented in the sculptured splendor of some temples (e.g., Kajuraho) that depict just about every taboo sex fetish known to man (as well as animal!), I would certainly consider Hinduism and all other schools of idol worship as a real “cool” vehicle destined toward a “sizzling” destination.
But that’s just fine with me. I got no business stopping you from doin’ your thaing so long as you give me the same leeway. Imagine what it would be like if we all got along. That would put most governments out of business!
There is nothing in the Bhagavad Gita, ( nominally a Hindu scripture and amongst the world’s finest pieces of Scriptural inspiration ) nothing, indeed nowhere, does the “Gita” subscribe to ANY of the vile ideas churned out from islam’s house of horrors. Add other great works, the Upanishads, The Vedas, and the Sakhara philosophy..all Hindu Master-pieces..and none subcribe to the vile ideas spewed out by Satanic islam and its demon-posessed maniacs from Satans domain. Actually, I think Satan is far more decent a fellow that islam’s worst ayatollah. sincerely, The Grand Kafir of Infidelistan, Netherlandanbul.
Words and letters are limited. Words cannot describe coffee to one who’s never tasted it. Spirritual experiences cannot be described by logic or words. Zen says we cannot depend upon words and letters, but upon direct experience. And that’s OK. One doesn’t need to get bound up in scriptural analysis-paralysis, or ‘doctrinal-sharpshooting’. Bottom line is “Know Thyself” Rajan is correct in that “Truth will prevail” no matter what man’s delusions inflict. What is, is, what is. Without discriminating ‘like and dislike’ and other dualities. “Love Thine Enemies” is not an instant brew, but an attitude to be practiced. eg. “Poor old Hitler, he was so delusional with his polluted-compassion, the end result of looking after the German people backfired bigtime. etc. Bahiism “Cultivate your garden.” signed Grand Kafir of Infidelistan. Bradford, Yorkshire, England.
Well Drew, you have at least one thing in common with the Muslim. Neither of you believes the Bible. And by having that in common you will also have a number of other things in common.
I’m curious to know why you believe an incident of a natural law being suspended (or temporarily altered,) should be called a violation. It would need to be something apart from a natural occurrence or it wouldn’t make for much of a miracle now would it? Anything that doesn’t “strain human credulity” we would have no reason to call a miracle.
So weren’t you really only saying that you find that particular miracle ridiculous primarily because you don’t believe a miracle can ever happen? You might then just as well have chosen Jesus having restored sight to a man blind from birth for your example, except mocking that miracle is rather more obviously in bad taste.
I’m also curious how much less terrifying you expect Hell should be than how the Bible describes it. Also, as I understand the word “sadistic”, it differs from punishment for being administered not to mete out justice but rather to arouse excitement (sexual) in the administrator. Where in the Bible have you found that?
You don’t need to exaggerate. It is sufficient to say you don’t believe the Bible because you don’t believe in miracles nor Hell. I trust you do believe all our lives are marked by various kinds of suffering and then finally we die. The Bible addressed the whys and wherefores of that as well. Since we can hardly deny that much does exist, we can take interest in what the Bible has to say about that first, and try to suspend our disbelief about the rest in the meantime.
08hayabusa:
I think you might appreciate this article … perhaps even enjoy it:
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/YHVH/yhvh.html
Are you a Jehovah’s Witness or are there just some things that you tend to agree with the Watchtower Society about by sheer coincidence? Do you favor their New World Translation only because Jehovah rather than the capitalized LORD is used where YHVH (or rather the Hebrew those letters approximate,) appears in the text, or for other reasons besides? Also, you wrote:
“Some faiths have taken this scripture [John 14:9] to mean that Jesus was saying he was God.”
If by that you mean from earliest times it was incorporated into a comprehensive doctrine of the Trinity as basic Christian orthodoxy, and that Catholic (Roman, Anglican, et. al.,) Orthodox, (Greek, Russian, et. al,) and Reformation, (Lutheran, Presbyterian, et. al.,) all uphold it, then wouldn’t you agree with me that saying “some faiths” understates things rather significantly? I don’t mean to be antagonistic. I’m just trying to have it clear where each of us is firmly committed, or just leaning, or completely undecided.
CC:
You need to get it straight that versions, when it means translations, does not indicate that each has a separate origin. You may as well argue that any translation of anything is worthlessly misleading. For example, if the front page of Le Monde is translated into English by five different people without consulting each other, you won’t get five duplicate versions. However, they will be alike and in none of them will an English reader get a complete misunderstanding of what it said in French. It’s not perfectly failsafe of course, but it is the practical alternative to learning to speak French. That is for casual translation. If you research the matter, you will find that Bible translation has been carried out quite a bit more scrupulously.
Anyone who delves into studying the Bible in any great depth will quickly come to a point of needing to consult the original Hebrew and Greek, however translations serve a perfectly good and very practical purpose for basic instruction. That is not a notion Christians have contrived. Before Christ the Jews had already come to rely heavily on the Septuagint as Greek had become the standard written language in the Near East. It didn’t supercede the original Hebrew and was used only for what practical convenience it offered. Incidentally, it inadvertently became an aid much later to scholars who have had the two lineages to compare and thereby verify both.
With that as background, lets take a look at what you claimed has resulted through mistranslating and what you also claim to have been deliberate mistranslating:
” …let me mention just a couple examples: The prohibition on consuming intoxicating liquors, flesh of swine (Leveticus), the command that women be modestly attired, not be in a position of leadership, and usurp the authority of man but be silent and obedient, etc. (Timothy). You will notice that over time, the ‘biblical’ translations became progressively diluted and ‘politically correct’ taking on a discretionary appearance of tolerance – or simply vanished.”
“Vanished”? Where have you found that?
If you had said the MEANING of certain passages are misinterpreted purposefully you would have a point. They certainly are and there is not much to do to prevent that. For example Muslims have written profusely their misinterpretations of Bible passages on this discussion board. However, that is not what you said. You claim that translators have not misinterpreted the MEANING (an error,) but rather have DELIBERATELY CHANGED ( not an error but deception,) the meaning of the text via translation. That is quite a charge and the onus is upon you to provide examples of it having been done. Otherwise, its just your suspicion, based on what?
In other ways you betray that frankly you have no idea about any of it. Let’s take the eating of pork/swine for example. It is prohibited under the dietary laws. However, in the book of Acts chapter 10 verses 9 to 13, Peter receives a vision in which he is told to eat the “common and unclean” things that he said “I have never eaten”. And he would not have eaten them according to the law. The voice said to him “That which God hath cleansed call not thou common.”
That is from the King James version. It is up to you to show how that has been deliberately distorted, or is even distorted in any sense at all, from the original Greek. Moreover, you would need to show why swine would’ve been somehow not included along with the “all manner” of beasts Peter would not eat but was told that henceforth may be eaten. And even if you could show any of that (which you cannot,) you would still need to find where in the Bible it calls upon Gentiles to obey the Mosaic law if you mean to imply that Christians who are Gentiles are disobeying God by not keeping a kosher diet. You may use it to argue that a Jewish Christian must keep kosher still, but you would ultimately end up losing that argument too. After all, Peter was Jewish. Nuf said?
As for your Koranic fair warning to be on guard against “Beezelbub” (I trust you meant Beelzebub,) it doesn’t fit with here as you claim, since it doesn’t appear intoxicants and gambling are behind what goes on here. Or do you know something about it I don’t? Your “benediction” is a bit more apropos. I think forming friendships might be a tall order but I don’t mind trying. Keeping things civil seems much more within reach, but even failing to do that may be tolerated by those of us who heed the warning that if we do not forgive each other we shouldn’t expect God to forgive us. At least one Muslim here has delighted in the vision of seeing some of us not forgiven but joining Beelzebub in his eternal fate.
You wrote:
“Imagine what it would be like if we all got along. That would put most governments out of business!”
And why do you suppose that never works with or without government? Because too many people just aren’t as cooperative as you are?
So much for all religions having the same essential message. Even the monotheists aren’t nearly as alike as your simple description of them would suggest. Christianity is not just about telling people to be good (and then leaving them to try.) It is not chiefly about what man is to do but rather what God has done to reconcile sinful humans to Himself because of their hopeless inability to do it themselves. In other words, it is the central premise of Christianity that other monotheists reject about it, not some trifling details of it.
So what is all this my dear Hindu friend?
Pornography in Ramayana
Dr. Charles claims that ramayana contains much pornographic material and cannot
be read in public. He gives the following examples.
Rama’s description of Sita’s beauty which is lewdly detailed (refer to C.R.
Srinivasalyengar’s translation of Aryana Kandam, Chapter 46).
In Kiskind Kandam, Rama explains to Lakshmana of his sexual experience with
Sita.
According to Ramayana, the Aryans (Brahmins) used to drink liquor (nine
different kinds), eat meat, marry many wives and prostitution was an accepted
way of life amongst the priests and gods.
Ramayana also recounts the “story of King Dasharatha”, who in order to have a
baby son, made a big sacrrifice (yaham) of sheep, cattles, horses, birds and
snakes. He then delivered his three wives Kaushaliya, Sumatirai and Kaikeyi to
three priests. These holy men, having fully satisfied their carnal desire,
returned the ladies to the King. By this means, the king was able to have three
sons – Ram, Lakshman and Bharat (Bala kandam, Chapter 14. For
more details on yaham, refer to the book “Gnana Surian”, published by Kudi
Arasu Press).
The Ramayan tells us much about the unlawful relationship of incest but we do
not feel it appropriate or decent for us to go into details. (Please refer to
Aranya Kandam, Chapter 45, Verses 122, 123, 124 and 125).
The following Hindu practices will reveal how immorality and indecency are
sanctified in the name of Hinduism.
Lingam & Yoni
Lingam and Yoni are the male and female sexual organs respectively. Hindus are
allowed to worship anything – including sexual organs. It is not unknown for
them to name their children Shiva Lingam (God Shiva’s sexual organ) or Rama
Lingam (God Rama’s sexual organ). In some place in Karnataka, the gods demand
both males and demales ro pray naked together.
Devadasi (Religious Prostitution)
The Devadasi system was set up, according to a Times of India report
(10-11-1987) as a result of a conspiracy between the feudal class and the
priests (Brahmins). The latter, with their ideological and religious hold over
the peasants and craftsmen, devised a means that gave prostitution their
religious sanction. Poor, low-caste girls, initially sold at private auctions,
were later dedicated to the temples. They were then initiated into
prostitution.
Bharat Natyam & The Brahmins
The Bharat Natyam is a dance performance which, because of the Brahmin media,
has gained much recognition as a form of art. The celebrated Bharat Natya
expert, Rukminii Devi, admits in a National Geographic video programme, that
the Bharat Natya was really the art of Devadasi (temple prostitutes) to please
their audience and admirers. This is the reason why you might have seen various
Bharatha Natya’s postures in Hindu temples.
Maybe like the art of KARATE to the japanese, the BHARAT NATYAM is a national
art of the Brahmins and very much part of their culture.
The Kamasutra
Brahminism has also created Kamasutra – a set of instructions on how to have
sexual intercourse. Some of the postures detailed in Kamasutra are so complex
that they only be performed with the help of one or more ASSISTANTS!
The Devadasii System Thrives
UNI. – TIMES OF INDIA – 10th Nov. 1987: confirms that the practice of
dedicating young Harijan girls (mahars, Mangs, Dowris and Chambhar) at
childhood to a goddess, and their initiation into prostitution when they attain
puberty continues to thrives in Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh and other parts of
South India. This is largely due to social backwardness, poverty and
illiteracy, according to a study by two doctors of the India health
Organisation.
The report clearly indicates that the Devadasi system was the result of a
conspiracy between the feudal class and the priests (Brahmins), who with their
ideological and religious hold over the peasants and craftsmen, devised a
practice which acquired religious sanction. They noted in their study on -
“Devadasis – the link between religious culture and child prostitution”.
The study revealed that girls from poor families are married tio God Krishna
and are sold after puberty at private auctions to a high caste master who
initially pays a sum of money to the families ranging from Rs 500/- to Rs
5,000/-.
The study, made during health camps organised by the World Health Organisation
(WHO) in the devadasi populated areas, revealed that the dedicated girls formed
15 percent of the total women involved in prostitution in the country, and as
much as 70 percent to 80 percent of the prostitutes in the border districts of
karnataka and Maharashtra.
The Naked Hindu Yogis of Kashi
Many of the Yogis of Kashi (Banaras) live naked and beg for their living. They
live in dirty, unhydienic conditions and drug addiction is rife among them.
Our so-called leaders and intellectuals have all contributed to the
superstitious beliefs and they have helped these saints to thrive and practice
deceptive methods to cheat the public. It is an utter shame that among the
worshippers of such naked godmen, there are a number of high court judges,
advocates, engineers, doctors, professors, politicians, cinema actors and
actresses.
For more details on these Hindu saints and Yogis, watch the documentary video -
“SHOCKING ASIA” – which is available from the following address:
Atlas International Film GmbH, Munich, Germany.
Replay Video, London.
Distribution First Film Organisation, Hong Kong.
Stark Naked Baths!
AGENCIES News Agency reports on 23.09.1987 that at Kurushetra (India) about
1,000 NAKED Hindu “Sadhus” (saints) plunged themselves into the river during a
solar eclipse, claiming this to be a “holy dip”. Over one million pilgrims,
naked and semi-naked, both male and female, also followed them into the river.
The largest of the pools is Brahmasarovar, and is said to accommodate 100,000
bathers at a time. There was still no room for everyone in the
water at one time and there was much pushing and shoving. The huge crowds
waiting on the banks barely had space to turn around. People crowded the shore
waiting for their chance. This is the position of “holy dip” everywhere in
India. A haryana Government spokesman said that they posted 20,000 policemen to
avoid misuse of this mixing opportunity for perverted reasons.
In addition to this spectacle, the pilgrims also look directly at the sun with
the naked eye. Scientists and doctors strongly advise against this as it is
likely to cause blindness.
The Miracle Man
How Rishis were Created?
According to the Hindu Holy books, God Brahma arranged the marriage of god
Shiva to goddess Parvathi. When they went around the fire as per Hindu
religious ritual, god Shiva looked at the thighs of goddess parvathi and
ejaculated his semen into the fire and they became Rishis (priests). According
to the Hindu Puranas this “god” can do such a filthy act!
Sex with Cows
In many Hindu temples, there are sculptures depicting men having sex not only
with women but also cows. What is the meaning of this? Is not the cow sacred?
If it is, then it should be worshipped not sexually assaulted
Comment by akhter on August 10, 2009
“So what is all this my dear Hindu friend?”
I’m not your Hindu friend so excuse me for interjecting, but what all this is, happens to be more plagiarism by you. Here’s the proof:
http://hinduismexposed.wordpress.com/pornography-in-ramayana/
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/in9.html
“In some place in Karnataka, the gods demand both males and demales ro pray naked together.”
Notice that you have even copied the typographical errors.
Why do you prefer to be intellectually dishonest, Akhtar? Why won’t you just simply give credit where credit is due and cite your sources? In this case you would also have been able to have simply linked to the articles and had the common courtesy of not needlessly using up too much space here. You are not just using material that isn’t yours. You are presenting it as if you had created it yourself; as if it was in your own words, which is what makes it not just intellectually sloppy, but intellectually dishonest. I don’t care if you want to discredit Hinduism, but do you want to discredit yourself in the process? If not, cite your sources, or if for some reason you cannot, explain why.
By the way folks, that didn’t take a lot of researching to discover. I simply typed the words “pornography in Ramayana” into a search engine and those two articles appeared at the top of the list.
Estimated time spent: 15 seconds.
Hi Earnest: It seems to me this discussion is mutating from the Complex to the Confusing! You are absolutely right in making a distinction between ‘version’ and ‘translation’. Bear in mind, though, they are not synonymous as you’d like me to believe, but distinct even by ‘casual’ standards. I choose ‘version’ because, on the lead page of every bible I picked up, is the declaration ‘Version’, which, in congruence with your observation, is an unambiguous prima facie admission that the Title (viz., “THE BIBLE”) is a misnomer for the real thing (translated, interpreted, editorialized, or whatever). In fact, you also make reference to King James ‘VERSION’ of the bible; so does wikipedia, a Link you cited earlier!
Applying your distinction, there is a conspicuous dichotomy between words even loosely translated to have similar meaning and words that have undergone a process of translation as well as interpretation and presented to the reader in a transformed but ‘palatable’ form. The latter I would view with skepticism.
I am sure the learned translators were well aware, as you certainly are, of the difference between “Translation” and “Version”; that the distinction cannot be casually dismissed. For that very reason, the notification, “Version”, is a truthful, intrinsic, and necessary inclusion that augments (or validates the inappropriateness of) the title.
Now, if I were to accept a translated representation of the Bible as reliable authority, wouldn’t it be fair that there also should exist the Original on hand to compare it to? But since there isn’t a Bible around in its original form (Where’d it go?), are you suggesting that the translation of another translation of yet another translation … and so on through the ages, by fallible individuals with questionable motives (and credentials) would meet your standard of authenticity (and also everyone else’s) especially since the ‘sheer numbers’ would outweigh any doubts about its origin and credibility? “More” doesn’t necessarily equate to “Better”; or does it, in this special case? Why does the Catholic ‘bible’ have 7 more books? (Maybe ‘sheer numbers’ would enhance credibility.). Heck! In some cases “Less” is believed to be “Better”; which seems to support the reason why, not just certain sections but, entire Books were excluded from inclusion in select Versions of the bible. I hope this explains my resorting to the word, ‘vanished’.
But the issue of concern here is, WHO IS QUALIFIED TO DELETE OR INCLUDE HOLY TEXTS unless by design? And if so, isn’t it reasonable to surmise the existence of some purposeful ‘slant’? This validates the necessity of including “Version” to characterize each book (sort of like the statutory warning on packets of cigarettes!): Believe At Your Own Risk!
On the one hand, you are indicating that, all ‘bibles’, by and large, convey the same meaning despite the label “Version” but, even though you made a significant point earlier, you are reluctant to admit, the very mention of the descriptor “Version” betrays an admission that they (the books) may likely have separate origins, (which, I gather, must be the several entities responsible for translation-interpretation-penmanship, etc.).
For lack of a better analogy, would you be willing to purchase gold or diamonds at a bloated markup if accompanied by stacks of Letters of Authenticity from ‘registered’ gemologists swearing up and down they are of identical composition as the Kohinoor on Queen Lizzy’s crown? Don’t forget the ‘sheer numbers’ of these Letters, now!
While on the subject of credibility and credible authorship, you referred to my example on the prohibition of consuming swine, etc. On the one hand God forbids everyone from consuming certain products particularly swine because it is an ‘unclean’ animal. But in Acts, Peter is said to have had a ‘vision’ (No offense, but what was he on?) where God does a 180°, makes a special case for Pete to sink his teeth in some mouth watering pork chops ‘cos God had ‘cleansed’ the filth and, Viola!, turned it into ‘un-filth’! You REALLY believe that hogwash?
Would you believe in someone who denied his master (Jesus) THREE FREAKING TIMES? By the way, new evidence shows that Peter never went to Rome (see Donald Fay Robinson’s “Where and When Did Peter Die?”), that he died in Jerusalem in the Spring of 44 AD, that Acts 12 1-19 suggests an ‘idealized’ (fantasized?) account of the Apostle’s demise while suffering imprisonment under Herod Agrippa 1. So much for being heroically crucified upside down at the behest of Nero!
You are correct again in recognizing Peter to be a hard core Jew – and Jesus’ inability to convert him to Christianity even at the cost of his life! Any wonder why we’ve reserved the name PETER exclusively for our little friend down below? Maybe ‘cos he was such a recalcitrant, unreliable dick that, thanks to charlatans like him, the ‘bible’ is rampant with controversies and conflicting information and his Church a personification of apostasy! But that’s cool with me ‘cos I got enough dirt on my back to deal with.
You make light of my suggestion to propagate tolerance, love, and beget peaceful coexistence but hesitate to reach out because it appears to be a “tall order” (but, nevertheless, worth a half-hearted try – perhaps)! But “keeping things civil” could be a workable possibility? Hasn’t History exposed hypocrisy as such; Where ‘things’ are kept ‘civil’ while the knife is purposefully and surreptitiously being sharpened?
Your reluctance to even, at minimum, imagine what it would be like if we all got along are cause for your pessimism at that prospect. I’ll have you know that there are a multitude of good people around who are just as ‘cooperative’ as I am for the greater good. Why do I sound so darn sure of this? Because I have faith in the goodness of the human spirit and the power that love wields. A good start at generating compassion and understanding would be to recognize similarities between different forms of monotheistic beliefs rather than festering in their differences. Perhaps, then, “He between whom and thyself was enmity [may then become] as though he had [always] been close [unto thee], a true friend! (Or do you doubt God’s power to accomplish this?).
It is highly noticeable that Christians love to promote arguements that are endless spinning dizziness like its book-partner, islam. All other systems, apart from their own, becomes a punch bag for their preconceptions of what a religion is about. These preconceptions keep them inside the box, from within which, they indulge their ego-centric judgements, biases, and narrow comparison making. Always be aware of their endeavour to compete against you in some sort of ”doctrinal-sharpshooting” as if the contest is all the real stimulus they have in their unconvincing delusional and insubstantial belief system. It is as if they think “If I can convince you to my ‘beliefs’ then maybe you can convince me too” mentality, which becomes all so evidenced here. This ‘argumentative’ psychology is referred to as “the endless round” – which is an excercise in sheer, spiritually immature, futility, similar to the equally current shams found in poor and pathetic islamic show-piece courts currently running in Tehran. Void of objectivity – much like their islamic brethren, we find little more than a solidified group of co-delusionals trying hard to rationalise their own lie’s to the world of more refined sanity than their own…and finding it hard going with the “Reality Kid” here. Now excuse me as I put on my cape and utility belt, I have a Metropolis to save to from islamic criminals..signed, The Super-Grand Kaffir of Infidelistan, care of the Batcave.
addendum to my critique of Akhtar’s Hinduism critique:
At the end of the second article I noticed these words:
“The Authors give Full Permission to Use any of the Above Material As Your Own to distribute for free.”
As I said before it doesn’t much matter that permission is granted (except from a legal standpoint of copyright infringement,) it is still bad form. This isn’t quite the same as ghostwriting, (although if no collaboration is acknowledged at all and the “collaborator” was really the author of the whole work, that kind of ghostwriting I don’t respect either.) This case is more like the copying of term papers I’ve mentioned.
The words, “As Your Own” are confusing. If someone writes a piece of music and gives it to someone saying “use it however you like,” does that really mean “go ahead and take credit for having written it”? Even if it does, isn’t it still fibbing to take that credit? There is some reason to doubt Messrs. Ghounem & Rahman had in mind to grant permission to rob the credit too, as where they were so courteous as to provide their names, they also include a copyright notice. That serves absolutely no purpose but to protect against infringement, no?
Sorry but this bugs me a lot. Please provide a link when possible and save space and eyestrain. Also, when you are quoting someone say so. Speak for yourself only when you are truly speaking for yourself. Or don’t and discredit yourself. It’s up to you.
CC
You wrote:
“You are absolutely right in making a distinction between ‘version’ and ‘translation’.Bear in mind, though, they are not synonymous as you’d like me to believe, but distinct even by ‘casual’ standards.”
That isn’t what I’d have you believe and is really opposite the point I was trying to make. Let me try again.
A translation is in one sense of the word, a version. However, many different translations of the same writing, are not the same as many different versions of the same story. For example, there are several different versions of the assassination of President Kennedy and countless books based on them. Any one of those books translated from the original into another language would not give another version of the story but rather the same version as the same book in its original language.
From that standpoint there is only one version of the Bible: The one in the original languages of Hebrew and Greek and from that, translations into many languages. There are other versions of the events and sayings of the Bible. For example, the Koran gives a different version of several things in the Bible, adding to it some and subtracting massive amounts. It is a quite sparse and fairly contrary telling and thus offers a quite different version where it alludes to the Bible. In this sense of the word, each version is by its very nature a different telling from every other version — translated or not.
When you have two versions of a story that agree, you really only have one version, not two — at least when the word “version” is used in that sense where it means contradicting stories of the same event. That is not the sense in which it is used when a translation is called a version. That’s not to say a translation can’t also contain such changes as to create a different version in the sense of conveying a conflicting meaning. Its just that it won’t do that simply by virtue of the fact that it is a translation. Some degree of intent to do it must be involved. I’ve already given the remedy but I’ll give it again just in case you missed it before: Consult the original Hebrew and Greek texts. There you might encounter some difficulties too, but you will at least learn that Bible translations aren’t wholesale deviations from the original. Not deviations in the sense of not corresponding in any way with the original text — as found in the Koran for example where what it says about Jesus is not even a paraphrasing of what is found in the Bible. It’s a different version that tells a different story, not the same story in a different language.
It is my opinion that a reasonably good case exists for the old King James being the English version that should be used mostly, and trusted over other English versions. I think a lot of the arguments made for it are more reactionary than convincing, but here is an example of one I think has merit. “Thee” “thou” are singular; “ye”, plural. The word “you” does not make that distinction which exists in the originals. Therefore, “you” is less accurate. The argument for changing to “you” — that it’s more familiar — is weak. Its not really hard to become acclimated to that older, more formal language. What makes this a difficult stance to take is there are some parts where it is, and where KJV can use a little correcting but (again my opinion,) you can hardly justify a whole new translation on that. A liberal use of footnotes would serve. However, in making a new translation the tendency to go overboard in “updating” to justify the effort, is a risk. Here’s an article giving an opposing opinion from mine:
http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/questions-mailbag/QM0709W1.htm
It’s a good argument. In some ways I prefer KJV for the same reason I think its important to retain hymns too. It is a form of music designed for worship. Contemporary Christian music ends up being imitative of popular secular music. That’s an ongoing debate in churches too. Meanwhile, there tends to be a mix of all of it these days — the music and the Bibles — in the same church with things going along fine. And I think that’s only to be expected. Unless any of it leads to a break from orthodoxy that slips into heresy it’s more of a tempest in a teapot than a worry. Actually, it rarely creates any disagreement on basic doctrine. It does sometimes show up in “fuzzier” issues mainly of eschatology. Here’s an example:
http://www.bibletruth.cc/the_restrainer.htm
That’s one of the passages mentioned in the previous article. As you can see even at a glance (I don’t expect you to do more than that,) there’s a lot more to it than just figuring out that letteth means hinder.There’s an order of priorities that effect what someone can get from the Bible. For example, anyone who tries to decide what it has to say about the second coming of Jesus before deciding correctly about the first coming, might as well not bother even opening the book.
If you peruse the site you’ll find it uses an English version with a distinctly Jewish flavor. As far as I saw it upholds all orthodox doctrine and unless I found something that didn’t, it would not disturb nor confuse me, even though I’m not acquainted with it. I’m not acquainted with any Bible in French or German either, but I don’t lose sleep over it. Besides, it’s probably paraphrased. It looks to be, so I take that into account.
I might have only given you more excuse now to disregard the Bible than you had before, but at least maybe you won’t think I aim to be belligerent. One more thing you wrote which I’d like to address directly:
“On the one hand, you are indicating that, all ‘bibles’, by and large, convey the same meaning despite the label “Version” but, even though you made a significant point earlier, you are reluctant to admit, the very mention of the descriptor “Version” betrays an admission that they (the books) may likely have separate origins, (which, I gather, must be the several entities responsible for translation-interpretation-penmanship, etc.)”
The origins aren’t quite the grand mystery you suspect they are.That is really not too difficult to research yourself to draw your own conclusions. However, after reading your take on the Apostle Peter, I’ve an inkling your conclusions have already been reached. Incidentally, I didn’t intend to “make light of [your] suggestion to propagate tolerance, love, and beget peaceful coexistence…” Perhaps I wasn’t careful enough to make myself well understood, but I have your fine example of kind and considerate words to follow in order to try to do better from now on. As you so marvelously demonstrated in what you had to say about Peter (among other things,) just trying to keep things civil isn’t being nearly ambitious enough. I’ll hold on to those thoughts I wrote about forgiving though, if you don’t mind. I find that tolerance and love and peaceful coexistence don’t come together too well without it.
BNI your videos are not true or real, you are a twisted rascist individual. Videos can be made and edited and do not reflect the truth. I wish there were some way to help you as you seem to be a very disturbed individual
Islam does not permit any such thing.
Joseph Fritzl slept with his daughter, Did he do it as he was allowed? Was he a muslim? NO and NO. in the same way you cannot blame a religion with a huge following for the actions of a few
More than half of these videos come right out of the Middle East in the native language of the Muslims who are in them. Show me which videos that feature Muslims speaking in their own words are not true.
Especially the video from Saudi Arabia, made by Saudis..yes it was all “fake” so was the blood ..all fake. Yes, do go off into DENIAL you muslim ignoramus cherry picking away and thinking only the milk and honey oozes from blood-thirsty islamoNazism. What a Wanker-Into-Denial you muslim freaks into twisted Death-Cult are…. You can’t make up beheadings and torture in thes emuslim-sicko-videos. They ARE real. But your too far into embarrassment and DENIAL about your cheap and cheerless, miserable islamic existence, for which you have no guts to quit. You just a robot with koranic programming and not a free mind whatsoever. see !
“Joseph Fritz” is not a religion like islam, But in your desperation to play tit-for-tat here in that typically defensive, denial-delusion you suffer from, you have to find some barrel to scrape the bottom of. Sorry, but your futile comparrison making here has fallen on stony ground and remains wholly unconvincing. Try again, and aim for an ‘A’ pass this time, and not the ‘D’ in your last comment. Try educating yourself beyond the boring koran.
Thanks barenakedlslam for exposing the truth about islam. In the name of politcal correctness, many people refrain from talking about this evil idealogy named islam. It has never been a religion of peace and will never be one. Switch on the news and one hears about bombings & beheadings coming from the moslem world either that or how women are to be lashed for grave crimes such as wearing trousers ( in Sudan ). We only have a handful of coverage here, God alone knows what goes on in the moslem world coz half the stories are not even reported since they don’t have the concept of a free press. Please keep up the good work & I want these voices against islam to grow louder, Godspeed!
MH, come back often, there are hundreds of stories/videos here that will interest you. Just open any of the categories.
Hamptster:
I hope you haven’t bolted yet because I’d like your opinion of this:
http://aipnews.com/talk/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6921&posts=3
Please read it carefully, especially the part where Agha Haddad first says God cannot speak to humans and then after being reminded that God is Almighty and so may speak to whomever He pleases, tells them they aren’t worthy to be spoken to by God.
What do you say? Do you believe God wants your prayers but has nothing whatsoever to say to you in return?
You say that BNI needs help because she seems to be “disturbed”. Don’t you find that sort of Islamic kangaroo court quite disturbing, or any of the other appalling things going on in the world today in the name of Islam? If not I’d say you’re the one who needs help. Do you know any converts to Islam in England? What if that were treated as a crime and they were thrown into prison to face a possible death sentence?
This isn’t some long past shame that can’t be undone. Its going on in our own time.
So won’t you agree with me that if anyone is “disturbed” it’s the people of the Iranian regime and any of the Muslims of that nation or anywhere else who could even contemplate imprisoning, much less executing, two young women for converting from Islam to Christianity.
I’m awaiting your reply.
Thanks a lot BNI and keep up the good work we need more people like you, I will be a regular here
In the same manner we could set up a site and call it Bare Naked Christianity and on it we could show all the atrocitis committed by individual and collective groups of christians and then blame their actions on christianity. But we have more logic then that and reakise that evil is in the heart of the individual and not in the religion. if only the narrow BNI could realise.
BNI
BNP
very similat letteing and I would say that they share the same views
Thanks MH, glad to have you.
I think the BNP is spot on about the Muslim problem in the UK. Apparently so do millions of other people.
Attrocities commited by moslems will outnumber the attrocities commited by another religious group and btw what other religious group is commiting crimes in the name of it’s God except islam?
People from other religions do commit attrocities I am not denying that but they do not attribute it to their religion but this is a specific islamic problem where religion is the driving force ( commiting crimes in the name of islam) and thats why so many people are outraged. How come you don’t have a Mother Teresa , Pope John Paul or a Don Bosco Or a Mahatma Gandi or an Einstein come from islam instead you have names like Bin laden, Khomeni, Ahemednijad … the full list here http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm
And the number of islamic terror groups operating is outrageous!
Bin Laden, Khomeini, Ahmadinajad, Hassemi, Hamas, Hizbollah,et al. Plus, we musn’t forget to mention the shitty underwear these arabs have. During my hike through the Palestinian areas, I saw not one piece of underwear on a clothes line – ever.
The lack of ability to articulate by ‘hamster’ is making his written work extremely boring. English is his 2nd language even though hamster lives in England…the parasite.
Drew, and now you know why. LOL http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/now-wearing-a-bra-in-somalia-is-considered-un-islamic/
Woah, there Ernie! Don’t put words in my mouth (foot, is OK though!). I had never before ‘disregarded’ the Holy Bible; nor its numerous Versions. You see, I’m far from qualified to do so. Neither am I qualified to pass judgment on the Holy Koran or Torah, for that matter, for lack of divine insight and scholarly knowledge. I’m just raising points that conflict with reason (Okay! Admittedly, with MY reason) as to the accuracy of these ‘works’ and validity of the message(s) when sanctification of these various ‘Versions’ (whether BY CONSENSUS OR ‘PONTIFICAL’ DECLARATION) was achieved in the conspicuous absence of the Original. Reason for doubt, wouldn’t you say?
The Latin bible was first printed in the 1430’s. The first English version was in the 1500’s. It’s important to bear in mind that Jesus didn’t speak Greek or Hebrew. He preached in ancient Aramic. Accounts of his work began appearing around 300 years after. These were Greek and Hebrew TRANSLATIONS. But translations OF WHAT? Hearsay? Double Hearsay? Conjecture? Contemporary folklore? since no disciple of Jesus knew how to read or write; all except Barnabus. But his first hand, eyewitness testimony is rejected in preference to hearsay (Sort of like the crowd choosing Barabas over Jesus as to who should live).
When you translate a document that was written many centuries after the fact into another language, then you can’t really claim with any degree of certainty that your sources are correct.
Do you have any idea on how many ‘Identical’ Mona Lisa’s are floating around? I don’t either, but you get my drift? It’s like printed currency which is passed off as gold, or as the Late Mister (Fred) Rogers coined the term ‘Pretend’ gold! Pure gold is pure gold everywhere and currency is processed paper. Stretching this concept, if there was no gold around in the first place, i.e., absent any standard-setting archetype, how could something abstract be imitated and/or fashioned into something tangible and yet purport to be similar (if not identical) to it; this, in spite of the many, many different craftsmen responsible for its synthesis thru’ various routes? The imitation, in any case, is referred to as ‘Fool’s Gold’. So much for these ‘versions’ of the non-existent Bible in its original form.
I thank you for the effort you put into your response: it has not been wasted on a person with a predisposed mind. I must also thank you for sparing chastisement for my comments about St. Peter. It was in poor taste. I just happen to be a sucker for loyalty and steadfastness, but, nevertheless, quick to admit my shortcomings and offer apology. I shudder at the thought of meeting up with him one day (nervous; all the while wondering in which orifice will he be stuffing those massive keys). Regards.
Comment by Carlisle Collins on August 12, 2009 6:35 pm
It’s important to bear in mind that Jesus didn’t speak Greek or Hebrew. He preached in ancient Aramic. Accounts of his work began appearing around 300 years after. These were Greek and Hebrew TRANSLATIONS. But translations OF WHAT? Hearsay? Double Hearsay? Conjecture? Contemporary folklore? since no disciple of Jesus knew how to read or write; all except Barnabus.
==========================================================================
Jesus was a Jew, so he most definitely, read, wrote, and spoke Hebrew. And since the language of his day in Israel was Greek he most emphatically spoke it also. That is also why the New Testament was written in Greek. It was the language of the day. And by the way, all of the people who wrote the NT except for Paul, were his disciples while he was alive. So they were not writing about folklore, and they could obviously read and write.
These books were written only decades from his death. I’ve included a list of each of the NT books and the year the writing was completed. Jesus died in 33 C.E. And here’s a scripture to prove he read and spoke Hebrew. The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and he read it.
(Luke 4:16-21) 16 And he came to Naz´a·reth, where he had been reared; and, according to his custom on the sabbath day, he entered into the synagogue, and he stood up to read. 17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18 “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.” 20 With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed upon him. 21 Then he started to say to them: “Today this scripture that YOU just heard is fulfilled.”
Name of Book: Matthew
Writer: Matthew
Place Written: Palestine
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 41
Time Covered: 2 B.C.E.–33 C.E.
Name of Book: Mark
Writer: Mark
Place Written: Rome
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 60-65
Time Covered: 29-33 C.E.
Name of Book: Luke
Writer: Luke
Place Written: Caesarea
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 56-58
Time Covered: 3 B.C.E.–33 C.E.
Name of Book: John
Writer: Apostle John
Place Written: Ephesus, or near
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 98
Time Covered: After prologue, 29–33 C.E.
Name of Book: Acts
Writer: Luke
Place Written: Rome
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 61
Time Covered: 33–c. 61 C.E.
Name of Book: Romans
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Corinth
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 56
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 1 Corinthians
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Ephesus
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 55
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 2 Corinthians
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Macedonia
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 55
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Galatians
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Corinth or Syrian Antioch
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 50-52
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Ephesians
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Rome
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 60-61
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Philippians
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Rome
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 60-61
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Colossians
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Rome
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 60-61
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 1 Thessalonians
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Corinth
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 50
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 2 Thessalonians
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Corinth
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 51
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 1 Timothy
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Macedonia
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 61-64
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 2 Timothy
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Rome
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 65
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Titus
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Macedonia (?)
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 61-64
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Philemon
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Rome
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 60-61
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Hebrews
Writer: Paul
Place Written: Rome
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 61
Time Covered:
Name of Book: James
Writer: James (Jesus’ brother)
Place Written: Jerusalem
Writing Completed (C.E.): b. 62
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 1 Peter
Writer: Peter
Place Written: Babylon
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 62-64
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 2 Peter
Writer: Peter
Place Written: Babylon (?)
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 64
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 1 John
Writer: Apostle John
Place Written: Ephesus, or near
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 98
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 2 John
Writer: Apostle John
Place Written: Ephesus, or near
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 98
Time Covered:
Name of Book: 3 John
Writer: Apostle John
Place Written: Ephesus, or near
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 98
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Jude
Writer: Jude (Jesus’ brother)
Place Written: Palestine (?)
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 65
Time Covered:
Name of Book: Revelation
Writer: Apostle John
Place Written: Patmos
Writing Completed (C.E.): c. 96
I do not have the time to sit here and post all day, so I type in a rush and make mistakes, big deal. and drew maybe the muslims just do not feel the need to show their underwear to the world like yourselves.
eRNEST When Miuhammed (PBUH) was alive and people would turn back to kafir after embracing Islam and return to there people Muhammed (PBUH) in the treaty said you do not have to return them but if and Kafir escapes from yourselves and comes to me to embrace Islam I will return them to you. Before you take this out of context I am merely illustrating to you that Allah will punish those who transgress so we do not have to The prophet (PBUH) was a man of his word, he forgave his enemy and through the unity Islam gave him and the muslim Ummah (brotherhood) he was able to spread Islam. study Islam as a religion and try to be unbiased. Look at what the quran teaches rather then human acts committed. Look at the true religion.
If a christian goes on a killing spree and says that he is doing it in the name of christianity, will that mean that he is bad or will it mean that christianity is bad?
I am giving you a valid argument but as one does when they are ignorant and wrong you are retaliating with abuse.
Joseph Fritzl is not a religion well neither is Osama bin laden.
I am educated probably more so then most of the rascists that come on here and that is why I am not retaliating with abuse. if it was tit for tat I would try to abuse your religion, but i AM NOT.
I chose to speak the truth so drew respond in a reasonable way without being pathetic
Hyabusa there are English translatiions of the Quran available
Oh nad BNI thank you for confirming your rascism
I pity you
08hayabusa: Are you deliberately attempting to mislead? You give credit to Luke for authorship of the Book of Acts and Gospel of Luke when there is evidence that the Lukan text itself was not written by a single person, but it was the result of the contributions from multiple sources, such as Mark, and Q. Nowhere in Luke or Acts does it say that the author is Luke, the companion of Paul. Neither do the ‘authors’ claim to be eyewitnesses to what they wrote, but, in their own words admit to hearsay. They only admit that they “carefully investigated” the STORIES THAT HAD BEEN HANDED DOWN, and are merely narrating THEIR UNDERSTANDING of the events in the life of Jesus: “Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, JUST AS THEY WERE HANDED DOWN TO US (Notice the plural that indicates more than one author) BY THOSE WHO FROM THE FIRST WERE EYEWITNESSES and servants of the word….” (Luke 1:1-4). Nowhere is any mention of just how “carefully” these stories, that were “handed down”, investigated? Further, the phrase “handled down to us” implies that the stories passed thru’ several generations (and renditions) before reaching, being “carefully investigated”, and being processed by the Lukan authors.
The earliest record of the existence of Theophilus of Antioch, who “Luke” addresses as “the “most excellent” Theophilus in Luke 1:1-4, is around 180-185 AD. And reliable historians place the date for Luke at around 150 AD – way beyond the era of Jesus.
Next, exactly WHERE is the word “Jehovah” in the original writings of Luke? It is an admitted fact that prior to the sixteenth century, the word “Jehovah,” was unheard of! Of the scraps of ‘original’ parchment in Greek, there is no mention of a single ‘Jehovah’ anywhere; (which mercifully spared us from somebody else beating the likes of Judge Rutherford, Charles T. Russell, etc., to the